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Masters of Love and Light => Jesus Christianity and 'The Second Coming' => Topic started by: Steve Hydonus on Jun 14, 2014 12:25 am



Title: The Bible and Christian Dogmatism
Post by: Steve Hydonus on Jun 14, 2014 12:25 am
Galactic friends. I have meditated many times thru the years and have been accosted by Christians feeling they should 'set me straight'. It can be frustrating if you are in an absorbed state. I do not think Americans can even get a grasp of how Christianity has shaped our culture. In many ways it has been extremely destructive. Just one example: Think of how much more i/we could have learned from eastern cosmology if we had not been overwhelmed by Christian dogmatism.

Jitendra



      



Title: Re: Christian Dogmatism
Post by: zap on Jun 14, 2014 01:28 am
Yes, you would be steeped in Eastern dogmatism.



Title: Re: Christian Dogmatism
Post by: Steve Hydonus on Jun 14, 2014 01:51 am
Yes, you would be steeped in Eastern dogmatism.

It is nice to have you with us zap. I do not think what you are saying is true. I feel i would have spent much more time assimilating the essene and gnostic gospels and listened to many more of the early church fathers if it had not been for much negative Christian doctrines in my youth and the annihilation of gnostic and essene influences by conventional Christianity.

By the way I thought I would mention to you zap. You brought up Adam and Eve as an example for heterosexual marriage. What you did not say is how Adam and Eve continued to have offspring since both of them had no females. Because God created man and woman is no sign that he was against same sex marriage. It only signifies he created two sexes.

The Bible is full of contradictions and deletions. It becomes more and more apparent as one is 'preached to' about it. My view is that our culture is extremely out of balance in religious understanding compared to for instance people from India. Most people in the United States are extremely brain washed by Christian religious dogma.

I have appreciated your contributions from Ram Das who is quite an exception to my generalizations.

Jitendra


Title: Re: Christian Dogmatism
Post by: zap on Jun 14, 2014 02:24 am
Yes, you would be steeped in Eastern dogmatism.

It is nice to have you with us zap. I do not think what you are saying is true. I feel i would have spent much more time assimilating the essene and gnostic gospels and listened to many more of the early church fathers if it had not been for much negative Christian doctrines in my youth and the annihilation of gnostic and essene influences by conventional Christianity.

By the way I thought I would mention to you zap. You brought up Adam and Eve as an example for heterosexual marriage. What you did not say is how Adam and Eve continued to have offspring since both of them had no females. Because God created man and woman is no sign that he was against same sex marriage. It only signifies he created two sexes.

The Bible is full of contradictions and deletions. It becomes more and more apparent as one is 'preached to' about it. My view is that our culture is extremely out of balance in religious understanding compared to for instance people from India. Most people in the United States are extremely brain washed by Christian religious dogma.

I have appreciated your contributions from Ram Das who is quite an exception to my generalizations.

Jitendra

(http://rivista-cdn.pittsburghmagazine.com/Best-of-the-Burgh-Blogs/Pitt-Girl/September-2013/RIP-Ghost-of-Sid-Bream/dad.gif?ver=1380045525)


Title: Re: Christian Dogmatism
Post by: Steve Hydonus on Jun 14, 2014 02:37 am
Yes, you would be steeped in Eastern dogmatism.

It is nice to have you with us zap. I do not think what you are saying is true. I feel i would have spent much more time assimilating the essene and gnostic gospels and listened to many more of the early church fathers if it had not been for much negative Christian doctrines in my youth and the annihilation of gnostic and essene influences by conventional Christianity.

By the way I thought I would mention to you zap. You brought up Adam and Eve as an example for heterosexual marriage. What you did not say is how Adam and Eve continued to have offspring since both of them had no females. Because God created man and woman is no sign that he was against same sex marriage. It only signifies he created two sexes.

The Bible is full of contradictions and deletions. It becomes more and more apparent as one is 'preached to' about it. My view is that our culture is extremely out of balance in religious understanding compared to for instance people from India. Most people in the United States are extremely brain washed by Christian religious dogma.

I have appreciated your contributions from Ram Das who is quite an exception to my generalizations.

Jitendra


(http://rivista-cdn.pittsburghmagazine.com/Best-of-the-Burgh-Blogs/Pitt-Girl/September-2013/RIP-Ghost-of-Sid-Bream/dad.gif?ver=1380045525)

halarious laugter!


Title: Re: Christian Dogmatism
Post by: Steve Hydonus on Jul 01, 2014 08:29 pm
Why do so many Christians believe in hell fire and a tribulation? Look at their lives and see. They crave drama. Big drama. People who have drama in their life must also have it in their religion. An end to our world has not taken place since the Christians predicted it in Christ's time nor is it coming any time for a long long time. The notion of a burning everlasting hell only demeans our descriptions of God. Let us move out of fear and towards trust. In many ways this type of Christian dogma has not only hurt Christianity but everyone who has been exposed to it.



Title: Re: Christian Dogmatism
Post by: tides2dust on Jul 02, 2014 02:04 am
What happened to my friend Zap ??


Title: Re: Christian Dogmatism
Post by: Steve Hydonus on Jul 02, 2014 03:39 am
What happened to my friend Zap ??

We were wondering the same thing about you. He met the same fate as hippo and dez. He spontaneously combusted and then morphed.

There also has been resurrection activity. Resurrection can be more life altering.

You might have to administer more liquid purifiers my friend.... for the sake of cosmic justice.


Title: The Bible Endorses Slavery... the Bible on Polygamy....the Bible on women.
Post by: Steve Hydonus on Jul 11, 2014 05:19 am
This thread is certainly an important one considering that most Christians that have influenced the Western World and now most of the world have believed the Bible without question. These quotes in addition to the ones above give more reasons to look at the Bible and to question it's validity:

The Bible on Women:


Traditional Christianity and St. Paul:  I Timothy 2--that women were created second, sinned first, and should keep silence.


The Bible on polygamy:

Solomon had 700 official wives and 300 concubines....

The Holy Bible 1 Kings 11:1-3

The Bible on slavery:

Let all who are under the yoke of slavery regard their masters as worthy of all honor, so that the name of God and the teaching may not be defamed. Those who have believing masters must not be disrespectful on the ground that they are brethren; rather they must serve all the better since those who benefit by their service are believers and beloved. Teach and urge these duties. If any one teaches otherwise and does not agree with the sound words of our Lord Jesus Christ and the teaching which accords with godliness, he is puffed up with conceit, he knows nothing; he has a morbid craving for controversy and for disputes about words, which produce envy, dissension, slander, base suspicions... 

-1 TIMOTHY 6:1-4 


Slaves, be obedient to those who are your earthly masters, with fear and trembling, in singleness of heart, as to Christ.... 

---EPHESIANS 6:5

As for your male and female slaves whom you may have: you may buy male and female slaves from among the nations that are round about you. You may also buy from among the strangers who sojourn with you and their families that are with you, who have been born in your land; and they may be your property. You may bequeath them to your sons after you, to inherit as a possession forever; you may make slaves of them, but over your brethren the people of Israel you shall not rule, one over another, with harshness. 

—leviticus 25:44—46 









Title: Re: The Bible and Christian Dogmatism
Post by: Swami Peevananda on Jul 11, 2014 10:16 pm
Glad to hear you're keeping up with your devotional readings!


Title: Re: The Bible and Christian Dogmatism
Post by: Steve Hydonus on Jul 12, 2014 02:33 am
Glad to hear you're keeping up with your devotional readings!

One would wonder.... may you go beyond serpent smiles and be awarded with cosmic cracker jacks.


Title: Re: The Bible and Christian Dogmatism
Post by: Swami Peevananda on Jul 12, 2014 08:47 am
I have no idea what you're talking about.


Title: Re: The Bible and Christian Dogmatism
Post by: Steve Hydonus on Jul 12, 2014 09:02 am
Glad to hear you're keeping up with your devotional readings!

One would wonder.... may you go beyond serpent smiles and be awarded with cosmic cracker jacks.

One does not always need to understand to appreciate. You yourself have brought this to my attention. In that sense we only have mirrored one another.

The Cosmic Spoof


Title: Re: The Bible and Christian Dogmatism
Post by: Steve Hydonus on Jul 13, 2014 02:44 pm
As for your male and female slaves whom you may have: you may buy male and female slaves from among the nations that are round about you. You may also buy from among the strangers who sojourn with you and their families that are with you, who have been born in your land; and they may be your property. You may bequeath them to your sons after you, to inherit as a possession forever; you may make slaves of them, but over your brethren the people of Israel you shall not rule, one over another, with harshness. 

leviticus 25:44-46 


Date of Writing: The Book of Leviticus was written between 1440 and 1400 B.C. by Moses. Time wise it  happened approximately the same time in the Dwapara yuga that we live in today since the lowest part of the kali yuga was 500 A.D. according to the Master's (SRF lineage) teachings. It would have been at the beginning of the Dwapara yuga. So this would have correlated with the time just around or after the civil war. So we see that in this sense the Bible does not even give correct teachings for guidance in regards to this period time wise. Many parts of the Bible are obsolete. There is no... i repeat no justification for a prophet or a saint preaching slave trafficing and blatant sexism. Who will end sexism towards women unless men openly expose and defy the sources from where it originated? The Bible in many ways is finished as a definitive spiritual ideal and it is hopeless to defend many parts of it.

Also, again we find inconsistancies. In one sense Moses led people out of bondage and in another he promoted slavery. Who will end sexism towards women unless men openly expose and defy the sources from where it originated?  Let us again read the words of Moses above. This is a prophet? Buying people like commodities and using them as possessions?  In fact it is hypocrisy to lead a people out of slavery and then preach slavery as well. To think that a prophet of the Lord would justify harshness for one race of people and to bar it from another only increases the inhumanity of the Bible and those who wrote it. 





Title: Re: The Bible and Christian Dogmatism
Post by: Swami Peevananda on Jul 13, 2014 07:09 pm
Do the SRF teachings ask you to become a biblical critic? Yogananda himself considered the bible to be holy scripture. You are such a "textbook liberal" that it would be laughable if it weren't so boring. Your biblical analysis is half-witted at best and nothing but the same old dull ranting we have all heard before and can hear any day of the week. Why don't you go meditate instead of rattling off this drivel? Your ranting has the smell of the truck stop.


Title: Re: The Bible and Christian Dogmatism
Post by: Steve Hydonus on Jul 14, 2014 12:35 am
Who knows how much it has been changed around to fit someones ideas, how much has been deleted and how much is just someones ferry tale. I remember Brother Turyananda saying to me that taking reincarnation out of the Bible was the worst single sin of all. Because it gave more credence to burning forever or going to a heaven after this life. One or the other for eternity. In some ways the Bible is diabolical. Especially because of the guilt that those who read it feel when they feel they have no 2nd chance.



Title: Re: The Bible and Christian Dogmatism
Post by: Steve Hydonus on Jul 14, 2014 05:30 pm
Do the SRF teachings ask you to become a biblical critic? Yogananda himself considered the bible to be holy scripture. You are such a "textbook liberal" that it would be laughable if it weren't so boring. Your biblical analysis is half-witted at best and nothing but the same old dull ranting we have all heard before and can hear any day of the week. Why don't you go meditate instead of rattling off this drivel? Your ranting has the smell of the truck stop.

If we look deeply into why people get critical we find somewhere a deep hurt. A deep confusion. A reaction to the world or to someone-whatever the target may be. It is like a wound inside that is festering and we can't get to its source. It is a deep dissatisfaction with ouselves and with life. But eventually there is no place to run, no place to go. Anywhere we go the challenges resurface. Often we find those around us are just as critical because it becomes a reflection of our reality.

I don't have the answers just observing the symtoms and trying to make sense of them as you are. Sometimes it can build up into anger and then we let it out on those around us. Even those we deeply care about. Then we have to face ourselves because we eventually recognize that not all of the problems come from outside of us. No; our reality is self created. But if we were to recognize it - all of it - could we really handle it? So we just work on what we can - what we see in our immediate environment - even though it is often painful. Slow by slow. We are all in this predicament together. We are all looking for a way out. That is why we are here. This deep dissatisfaction with those around us really is just a deeper dissatisfaction with ourselves. With our life. With this world. Yet that is why we are here on this forum. That is why we met. We have come face to face with ourselves.

Jitendra


Title: Re: The Bible and Christian Dogmatism
Post by: Swami Peevananda on Jul 14, 2014 07:52 pm
If we look deeply into why people get critical we find somewhere a deep hurt. A deep confusion. A reaction to the world or to someone-whatever the target may be. It is like a wound inside that is festering and we can't get to its source. It is a deep dissatisfaction with ouselves and with life. But eventually there is no place to run, no place to go. Anywhere we go the challenges resurface. Often we find those around us are just as critical because it becomes a reflection of our reality.

Jitendra

So this explains your criticism of Christians and the Bible and my criticism of you, all in one shot?


Title: Re: The Bible and Christian Dogmatism
Post by: Steve Hydonus on Jul 14, 2014 10:42 pm
Quote
Swami Peevananda
So this explains your criticism of Christians and the Bible and my criticism of you, all in one shot?

I criticised Christians? I apologize if that is the true. I am a Christian myself. So i would also be leveling the criticism at myself if that is the case.

The Bible is not perfect though it has much to offer that is my overview on this thread. If i have offended you (or anyone else) by being overly critical of the Bible I apologise : It seems important to me to separate fact from fiction and to recognize that the Bible was written by human beings and decisions about its contents were subject to human error. I have tried to figure out what to accept and what not to for most of my life. In some ways I have come to terms with this. This thread just helped me and hopefully some others as well.

Your criticism of me? Do you feel you have?

I think the whole thread has helped with understanding my upbringing and indoctrination into Christianity. I read what you had to say about this thread it appears the thread serves no useful purpose for you. Not everything that is said here on the forum is for everyone. There are many  topics to choose from.

Steve


Title: Re: The Bible and Christian Dogmatism
Post by: Steve Hydonus on Jul 16, 2014 12:39 am
Brock

No. You may be right. I may be a very poor critic of the Bible. I just have tried to understand what was meant for me in it. Mostly the words of Jesus strike a strong chord in me. Much of the rest of it is questionable to me. I do think it is a shame that the life of Jesus from his age about 14 to 30 was just left out. Also, what he might have given to his disciples in the way of meditation exercises and spiritual practices aside from what he taught and gave to the masses. It is also a shame that many books written for the Bible never saw the light of day till recently.

I have more to say about this subject and our relationship to the times of Christ and the Bible. i will save it for another time. I am slowly finding my relationship to this great work and the people I meet who were influenced by it including yourself.


Title: Re: The Bible and Christian Dogmatism
Post by: tides2dust on Jul 16, 2014 06:15 am
Hi Steve. I would like to come back and, after reading this once more in depth (i) would like to debate as I think you raise good questions. .. many of which I have not sat down and faced or even bothered to fathom. One point I'd like to make before coming back to this thread is in regard to your mentioning slavery quoted the bible... I think the time this was written should be taken into consideration because not only were slaves taught how to behave around their Masters but the Bible also taught Masters how to "properly" treat their slaves. Also... Was Jesus Jewish? There's a lot of tradition and just,  different ways of living that should be taken into consideration when translating the Bible as it was written from a completely different era then what we're accustomed to today.


Title: Re: The Bible and Christian Dogmatism
Post by: Steve Hydonus on Jul 16, 2014 10:52 am
Hi Steve. I would like to come back and, after reading this once more in depth (i) would like to debate as I think you raise good questions. .. many of which I have not sat down and faced or even bothered to fathom. One point I'd like to make before coming back to this thread is in regard to your mentioning slavery quoted the bible... I think the time this was written should be taken into consideration because not only were slaves taught how to behave around their Masters but the Bible also taught Masters how to "properly" treat their slaves. Also... Was Jesus Jewish? There's a lot of tradition and just,  different ways of living that should be taken into consideration when translating the Bible as it was written from a completely different era then what we're accustomed to today.

This is precisely why i do not see how the Bible can be used as a guide to social living anymore. Although perhaps one could use it fot personal living if one chooses. Otherwise It could be the cause of war and social repression. Which no doubt it has. As for instance civilizations using it to justify slavery and how women should behave, or how to treat animals and whether one should eat them.

The Bible may have been applicable to a different time and may not have. Yet much of of it is  not applicable to today. Who is to decide what to apply to today and what not to? Ah there is the rub. Yet there are groups today that have not only made their decision as what to use in the Bible for social change but try to enforce it on others as well on the grounds that the Bible is infallible.

Jitendra


Title: Re: The Bible and Christian Dogmatism
Post by: Swami Peevananda on Jul 16, 2014 09:18 pm
The problem comes when people want to decide things "en masse". This never works. Individuals have to decide what is applicable to themselves and what isn't (they do anyway).


Title: Re: The Bible and Christian Dogmatism
Post by: Steve Hydonus on Jul 16, 2014 09:26 pm
The problem comes when people want to decide things "en masse". This never works. Individuals have to decide what is applicable to themselves and what isn't (they do anyway).

agree totally...


Title: Re: The Bible and Christian Dogmatism
Post by: Swami Peevananda on Jul 16, 2014 09:51 pm
At a certain point I just gave up having a "stance" on things. Everybody always wants to know, "What's your stance on xyz?" As if I need to have a stance on everything going on in the world and in other people's lives. These days I just prefer to stand in the middle, or stand nowhere, especially when it comes to other peoples lives and decisions (unless it's a friend or someone who wants me to give an opinion based on what I would do). When things are not in your circle of immediate influence, your "stances" on them only take you away from, well, your own circle of influence; life; the present; reality. That's a sure way to get lost in thinking. Many people working at Starbucks believe that they are political analysts or foreign policy experts. In reality most of them are only being asked to make Frappuccino's.

The ancient Indian caste system was very different from modern democracy. They found it much better for a persons spiritual life to do their dharma and not try to be experts on everything under the sun. This is why you would go to a Guru, because you didn't know everything. Now everybody knows everything and has all their opinions, so there is no room for a Guru. The cup is already full.

Anandamayi Ma was asked about anger. She said, "I don't know how things should be. So how can I be angry? I can only be angry if I know how things should be." [paraphrased]



Title: Re: The Bible and Christian Dogmatism
Post by: Steve Hydonus on Jul 19, 2014 11:16 pm
At a certain point I just gave up having a "stance" on things. Everybody always wants to know, "What's your stance on xyz?" As if I need to have a stance on everything going on in the world and in other people's lives. These days I just prefer to stand in the middle, or stand nowhere, especially when it comes to other peoples lives and decisions (unless it's a friend or someone who wants me to give an opinion based on what I would do). When things are not in your circle of immediate influence, your "stances" on them only take you away from, well, your own circle of influence; life; the present; reality. That's a sure way to get lost in thinking. Many people working at Starbucks believe that they are political analysts or foreign policy experts. In reality most of them are only being asked to make Frappuccino's.

The ancient Indian caste system was very different from modern democracy. They found it much better for a persons spiritual life to do their dharma and not try to be experts on everything under the sun. This is why you would go to a Guru, because you didn't know everything. Now everybody knows everything and has all their opinions, so there is no room for a Guru. The cup is already full.

Anandamayi Ma was asked about anger. She said, "I don't know how things should be. So how can I be angry? I can only be angry if I know how things should be." [paraphrased]

I found your post interesting especially what Anandamayi Ma had to say about anger. It made me smile. I also like your views on 'stance'. For me the issue has an added dimension beyond stance. Stance is only a product of what originally played out in the past. Or there need not be even a stance taken but rather a keen interest generated. Enough to warrant a strong response. I ask myself this: What is my connection to the period of Christ and Christianity? It seems to be a karmic situation which I am witnessing many times in my life. Sometimes it takes time to understand our connection to past periods in history but we remain receptive, watch our own reactions and those around us. We often find a connection through past events by our encounters with those that now arise in our lives or those who have come in our lives at various times.

Occasionally an epiphany may come to us; a vision or a revelation from someone around us and our relatedness to such things becomes apparent. We may see a reaction in ourselves or others. It is somethings that one has learned which are planted by higher forces so we have the opportunity to work them out. We find some of the same conditions flowing over into this life because we have lessons that may not be completed from these past life scenarios. We may be wrapping up the lessons or still have much to learn but these episodes are brought to out attention to help us in our spiritual unfoldment. At times we are even awakened to the fact that we had a noble role we played in the past and at other times we were rogues or quite immature spiritually speaking.


Jitendra


Title: Re: The Bible and Christian Dogmatism
Post by: Steve Hydonus on Jul 21, 2014 02:29 pm
There is nothing 'wrong' with what is left of the Bible but rather it's use by fundamentalists to promote a certain religious/political agenda that is perpetrated by power hungry and lost souled people who wish to create something that for instance Jesus never had in mind. Their use of the Bible is to keep people in religious intolerance thus promoting warfare between various cultural/religious energy centers and maintaining power of the masses. This contributes to keeping in bondage the more progressive spiritual philosophies and experiences that are coming out of for instance spiritual portal.


Title: Does the Bible promote violence?
Post by: Steve Hydonus on Aug 21, 2014 05:49 pm
And call this a holy book? What kind of God is this that has a God killing children and women. Today we would call it: crimes against humanity. War criminals. Mass genocide.

And the LORD our God delivered him before us; and we smote him, and his sons, and all his people.  At God’s instructions, the Israelites “utterly destroyed the men, women, and the little ones” leaving “none to remain.”  And we took all his cities at that time, and utterly destroyed the men, and the women, and the little ones, of every city, we left none to remain. (Deuteronomy 2:33-36)



When you approach a city to fight against it, you shall offer it terms of peace. If it agrees to make peace with you and opens to you, then all the people who are found in it shall become your forced labor and shall serve you. However, if it does not make peace with you, but makes war against you, then you shall besiege it. When the LORD your God gives it into your hand, you shall strike all the men in it with the edge of the sword. Only the women and the children and the animals and all that is in the city, all its spoil, you shall take as booty for yourself; and you shall use the spoil of your enemies which the LORD your God has given you. Only in the cities of these peoples that the LORD your God is giving you as an inheritance, you shall not leave alive anything that breathes” (Deuteronomy 20:10-17



Title: Does the Bible promote violence; yes it does
Post by: Steve Hydonus on Aug 21, 2014 07:55 pm
Joshua said to the people of Israel, “The Lord has given you the city of the all silver, and gold, and vessels of brass and iron, are consecrated unto the Lord: They shall come into the treasury of the Lord.  The people utterly destroyed all that was in the city, both man and woman, young and old, and ox and sheep, and ass, with the edge of the sword. (Joshua 6:21-23

More crimes against humanity and mass genocide promoted by the Bible:


"I tell you that to everyone who has, more shall be given, but from the one who does not have, even what he does have shall be taken away. But these enemies of mine, who did not want me to reign over them, bring them here and slay them in my presence."(Luke 19:26-27)

The Bible promoted genocide, war crimes against humanity and had a God that tells his people to destroy everything.... children and women included. This is not a Holy Bible. It is a crime against humanity!







Title: Re: The Bible and Christian Dogmatism
Post by: mccoy on Sep 08, 2014 11:04 pm
Steve,  I agree that, from those passages, in comparison Gengis Khan sounds like a meek and pious conqueror, I remember the passage where Elijah was praised for having slaughtered a few hundred people. Yet Elijah was a great prophet, almost liberated, like Yogananda writes.

I believe there are a few aspects about that.

1) As you were musing, those scriptures are a fruit of the deep kali yuga
2) many passages are metaphorical and a deep knowledge of the social and historical context would be needed to grasp the hidden meaning
3) some passages have an esoterical meaning which just escapes most readers and surely escapes the Christian pastors. For example, St. Peter killed one couple of Christians because they lied about their possessions (they didn't want to share them as it was custom among the first Christian communities). Now, Jesus' foremost disciple Killing people for having told lies? That would just be preposterous. A grotesquerie of an holy scripture.Instead, we know from Yogananda that St. Peter was but a channel , an unconscious catalyst for Karma to work, those disciples were automatically punished for many previous bad actions, not just lies to St. Peter.

There are some Christian philosophers who are well aware of these contradictions and many times are able to elucidate the facts in a rational way.

Dawkins the strong atheist, who has criticized those weird passages of the bible, has been on his turn criticized for not knowing what he was speakng about. That is, Christian theologists have a rational explanation for most, or all the weird passages. Some of'em are  satisfactory, I don't know'em all.

And I concur that it would take a criminally insane mind to take those passages literally


Title: Re: The Bible and Christian Dogmatism
Post by: Steve Hydonus on Sep 08, 2014 11:27 pm
The Bible, especially is not applicable to the dwapara yuga. It is hopeless in its support of slavery, subjugation of women and mass genocide and non-humane punishment to name a few of its otracities. What is worst is that we have people that support the violence of the Bible and Koran which keep war, decapitation, genocide, gross mistreatment of women and dogmatism going. These old scriptures are in effect helping to keep the masses in the kali yuga because of the evil these scriptures endorsed. It would be much better to forget these old writings and follow dwapara type spiritual methods rather than building edifices to the past which promote kali yuga ethics.

What is even worst is that since the Bible does not explicitly mention meditation practice many Christians consider meditation as the work of the devil and try to convert you and tell you that you are following false prophets. The Bible only encourage such people in their ignorance. Furthermore because of the Bible; indigenous religions have been forcefully destroyed. The Bible makes claims (from a Christian stand point) that it is superior to other religions and that it is the only way to God. The Bible and most of its followers are quite clearly ego maniacs and through history they have believed their way is the only way. In this sense the Bible is extremely dangerous to tolerance and exceptance of other religious views. Because of the followers of the Bible, people have been burned at the stake for being heretical, tortured for their views and scientists have been persecuted for making claims like the world is round. People who see the Bible as sacred are some of the most hypocritical people in the world. They believe Solomon to be the wisest man alive at the time. Yet he had over 700 wives and 300 concubines. At the same time they preach sexual morality!!! It is hopeless to even talk to such hypocrites.

Brock told me it would be much like the people of the future seeing Star Wars and believing that was the way people lived now.
To believe all these stories were true and make them sacred is hopeless for spirituality.


Title: Re: The Bible and Christian Dogmatism
Post by: nincompoop on Sep 09, 2014 05:00 am
(http://www.quickmeme.com/img/c4/c411c9ec1b0c56c0d4a173405d20257278ab51fb4951510b4faaf2577fb6ec60.jpg)


Title: Re: The Bible and Christian Dogmatism
Post by: nincompoop on Sep 09, 2014 05:04 am
Steve, you might be interested in watching some of Bart D. Erhman's videos or interviews. He is a former "evangelical" turned agnostic after he went to bible college and found out that there are "questions" about the texts. It is a very deep intellectual analysis that, as Bart D. Erhman demonstrates, one can spend a lifetime on. The work of biblical criticism/analysis is never done.

 


Title: Re: The Bible and Christian Dogmatism
Post by: Steve Hydonus on Sep 09, 2014 10:09 am
You know I believe you are right. I believe I am a bit frustrated that I was lectured at about the Bible for years. If i had known then what I know now I would know what to say to all these people who spent hundreds of hours of my life preaching ignorance. Any how i believe that our culture has been infiltrated by propaganda. i would much rather listen to you Yoda. i would like to add this: There is preaching and practicing. However if there is little or no practice there is little result. So when we are enthusiastic about our practice we learn even more from those who preach it and for me it adds to the inspiration to practice.

When you look at the darkside.... careful you must be...because the darkside looks back~Yoda


Title: Re: The Bible and Christian Dogmatism
Post by: Steve Hydonus on Oct 28, 2014 03:45 am
https://www.yahoo.com/news/assads-warnings-start-ring-true-turkey-144516592.html

In this article Arabs bring back the idea of the crusaders and use the term synonomous with the United States. This is the main reason we are hated so much in the mideast. The Christian religion has only harmed the image of the United States. The atrocities of the crusaders and the Christian religion will take a long time to be forgotten especially since there are people in this country who have been considered pariah by most of the Christian Culture. As soon as you start including other religions, reincarnation and meditation as part of a religious culture most Christians consider you a heretic and influenced by demonic forces.


Title: Re: The Bible and Christian Dogmatism
Post by: Steve Hydonus on Dec 19, 2014 11:25 am
"The government of the United States is not, in any sense, founded on
the Christian religion."
-- George Washington


Title: Re: The Bible and Christian Dogmatism
Post by: mccoy on Mar 24, 2015 12:09 pm
On the crusades, I tend to see it in another light.
That is, it's just an excuse from the extremists. If we look back to history and reason in terms of Revenge, the world will sbe hattered by the overwhelming negative vibrations of hate.

I'm Italian, so I should be hated by all foreigners whose nations 2000 years ago were conquered by the Romans. I should also be hated by the muslims because many crusaders were Italian. I should also be hated by other religios which have been insulted by the Catholic religion. Lybians, Etiopians and Somali should hate me to Death because of the fascist domination. Also, Albanians and Greeks should hate me and Italy becuase of the attempted conquest by Mussolini. French and British people should hate me because Mussolini allied with Hitler against them. Also,all the nations conquered by Hitler should hate Italy because Mussolini was an allied of Hitler. This would extend to all the terirtories conquered by Japan, since Germany and Italy were allied with them.
On my turn, I should hate the Germans because they occupied the Italian territory after the coup which dethroned Mussolini. I should also hate the Moroccans, the Pakistanis and some American troops which committed atrocities and raped Italian women and boys during the occupation in Italy. I should hate hate Slavs because they killed lots of Italians after the war, throwing them in sinkholes....

I'm sure I could lenghten this hate-list at will
The same goes for other countries.

The bottom line is that we CANNOT look to the past and hate other nations and civilizations for what they did.
This is wshy all the references to the crusades are deadly wrong.

The muslim should try and prove that they are better than the western world in terms of  economic achievements, quality of life, arts and science. In the United Arabian Emirates they are trying and sometimes succeding. the Chinese are trying and suceding.


Title: Re: The Bible and Christian Dogmatism
Post by: Steve Hydonus on Mar 24, 2015 01:43 pm
Mccoy Really... I agree with u. There are so many people that consider themselves right. I think that is my point. How can everyone be rite? I think it is good to leave yourself open to the fact that there are so many views... so many ways of approaching things. Ours is only one way.

I believe that people and nations get in trouble when they go about thinking they have the answers and force them on others. To me;  that is the lesson here. It is good to recognize where are own nation and people have gone wrong, by deciding we knew what was best for other people, nations and cultures. Instead we could learn from those around us and other nations and cultures. We could grow by incorporating what they have learned and have to offer.

This is my point here. Our culture has always tried to export religion - Christian Religion. I am so glad for myself; that instead of following the Christian Religion-which was thrust on me from my culture-i learned and gained an appreciation of spirituality from cultures other than my own.


Title: Stoning, burning to death cutting off hands as punishment.
Post by: Steve Hydonus on Apr 04, 2015 07:13 pm
The Bible supporting stoning, burning to death cutting off hands as punishment.;

'And he that blasphemeth the name of the LORD, he shall surely be put to death, and all the congregation shall certainly stone him.' Leviticus 24:16

Leviticus 21:9 "And the daughter of any priest, if she profane herself by playing the whore, she profaneth her father: she shall be burnt with fire."  Why should only a daughter of a priest gets burnt to death if she profanes herself?  Why can't this law apply to all daughters?

Deuteronomy 25:11-12 "If two men are fighting and the wife of one of them comes to rescue her husband from his assailant, and she reaches out and seizes him by his private parts, you shall cut off her hand. Show her no pity." 

This doesn't make any sense what so ever!  Why should the woman get her hands cut off for defending her husband?  It's not like she was cheating on him or anything like that!


Title: Re: The Bible and Christian Dogmatism
Post by: Steve Hydonus on Apr 04, 2015 08:04 pm
Does the bible support the present idea that the earth rotates around the Sun?

Ecclesiastes 1:5
The sun rises and the sun goes down, and hastens to the place where it rises.


Title: Re: The Bible and Christian Dogmatism
Post by: Steve Hydonus on Apr 04, 2015 08:11 pm
Does the Bible support torture?

Illustration of Assyrians Torturing Their Captives
The sketch is from a wall relief depicting the Assyrians torturing their captives. The ancient Assyrian were among the most ruthless of all ancient warriors. This was the fate of the rebellious Israelites of the Northern Kingdom.

"And they slew the sons of Zedekiah before his eyes, and put out the eyes of Zedekiah, and bound him with fetters of brass, and carried him to Babylon." - 2 Kings 25:7

"Because thy rage against me, and thy tumult, is come up into mine ears, therefore will I put my hook in thy nose, and my bridle in thy lips, and I will turn thee back by the way by which thou camest." - Isaiah 37:29 

"And the word of the LORD came unto me, saying, Son of man, set thy face against Gog, the land of Magog, the chief prince of Meshech and Tubal, and prophesy against him, And say, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I am against thee, O Gog, the chief prince of Meshech and Tubal: And I will turn thee back, and put hooks into thy jaws, and I will bring thee forth, and all thine army, horses and horsemen.." - Ezekiel 38:1-4

There are many examples revealing Assyrian severity. A captured king was taken to the capital and compelled to pull the royal chariot of triumph. Rings were put through their lips or noses and  sometimes hands, feet, noses and ears were cut off, they were blinded and their tongues were torn from their mouths. Prisoners were skinned alive and set on fire. Their skins were also hung near enemy city gates in order to collect tribute. The Lord allowed the ruthless Assyrians to capture the northern kingdom of Israel in 722 BC because of Israel's rebellion against Him. They were never seen again.

http://www.bible-history.com/sketches/assyria/torturing-prisoners.html


Title: Re: The Bible and Christian Dogmatism
Post by: mccoy on Apr 05, 2015 01:49 am
Steve, I wonder why you are focusing so much upon the old testament. Jesus' mission had the purpose to get beyond it and is described in the new testament. The bible contains both old an new testament.

Sure I too wonder why the old testament is still a part of the bible. It has mainly an historical value, since it is based upon obsolete religious concepts.

Do American Christians base their faith on Jesus' preachings or on the obsolete and obscure passages of old testament?

The historical reference to the Assyrians is interesting though. They usually burnt cities and deported Whole populations. Maybe Stalin learnt from them about mass deportation.


Title: Re: The Bible and Christian Dogmatism
Post by: Steve Hydonus on Apr 05, 2015 02:28 pm
Steve, I wonder why you are focusing so much upon the old testament. Jesus' mission had the purpose to get beyond it and is described in the new testament. The bible contains both old an new testament.

Sure I too wonder why the old testament is still a part of the bible. It has mainly an historical value, since it is based upon obsolete religious concepts.

Do American Christians base their faith on Jesus' preachings or on the obsolete and obscure passages of old testament?

The historical reference to the Assyrians is interesting though. They usually burnt cities and deported Whole populations. Maybe Stalin learnt from them about mass deportation.

We have the  Second Coming of Christ from Yoganananda's writings to draw from for an understanding of the life of Jesus Christ. i have a main point here Mccoy. That is that we are literally brainwashed by Christianity here in the states and most likely in Italy (where you live) as well. There are Christian churches on most all the major city blocks in all the towns of our country. The question i have is this: What influence does it have on the lives of others (social, political, moral) and what is it that they/we are actually following? As you see much of it reads quite like a Steven King book. Yet this is the book we follow to guide our life? Most all 'religious' people i have met in the common people in this country for decades have not been able to quote any guide line for their spiritual life accept from the Bible. If i quote anything from any other source they act like i have come from a different planet. They immediately redirect me to this same old book which is supposed to be a guide line for my spiritual life as well. As a people we need to understand that God worked thru many people and any many different ways not just thru the Bible.

As to your question of what Americans base their life on; Obviously Jewish Americans base their life on the Old Testament. If other Americans base their life on the new Testament - and have no understanding of any other spiritual teaching in the world - it shows a lack of spiritual perspective and open mindedness to any other religious views but their own.


Title: Re: The Bible and Christian Dogmatism
Post by: mccoy on Apr 05, 2015 03:17 pm
Steve, in the other forum I added a link which takes directly to this thread.

This ramification of fora and similar topics may become interesting, if we are careful not to let it become chaotic

http://www.yoganandaji.org/board/showthread.php?p=68191#post68191.


Title: Re: The Bible and Christian Dogmatism
Post by: Steve Hydonus on Apr 07, 2015 10:41 am
I have met a few mean and cruel people in my life. Now a mean and cruel God. Sorry I am not going for it. I think Amma said it best when asked if the Bible was true: "Some of it." ~ Amma


Title: Re: The Bible and Christian Dogmatism
Post by: mccoy on Apr 07, 2015 10:04 pm
I have met a few mean and cruel people in my life. Now a mean and cruel God. Sorry I am not going for it. I think Amma said it best when asked if the Bible was true: "Some of it." ~ Amma

Steve, maybe a mean and cruel period in history required a mean and cruel God. No wonder about it.

Sometimes Steve, I do not understand all this complaint about the bible. It appears so obvious to me that so many things are absolutely ridiculos to read in a supposedly religious book. So much so that they've been left there for historical reasons only.

Do you think that some people would be tempted to follow the example of Elijah, who cut the troath to over 300 mean priests and in doing so was praised by angels? And was God really cruel in possessing Elijah's body and cutting all those troaths (this is one possible reasonable explanation)? What if survival of the Whole Jew populace was due to that cut-troath festival?  what if those 300 priests were extremely cruel and possessed by Satan? That society was something pretty easy to manipulate by today's standards.


Title: Re: The Bible and Christian Dogmatism
Post by: Steve Hydonus on Apr 09, 2015 08:24 pm
I have met a few mean and cruel people in my life. Now a mean and cruel God. Sorry I am not going for it. I think Amma said it best when asked if the Bible was true: "Some of it." ~ Amma

Steve, maybe a mean and cruel period in history required a mean and cruel God. No wonder about it.

Sometimes Steve, I do not understand all this complaint about the bible. It appears so obvious to me that so many things are absolutely ridiculos to read in a supposedly religious book. So much so that they've been left there for historical reasons only.

Do you think that some people would be tempted to follow the example of Elijah, who cut the troath to over 300 mean priests and in doing so was praised by angels? And was God really cruel in possessing Elijah's body and cutting all those troaths (this is one possible reasonable explanation)? What if survival of the Whole Jew populace was due to that cut-troath festival?  what if those 300 priests were extremely cruel and possessed by Satan? That society was something pretty easy to manipulate by today's standards.


The 'compliant' as u put it is quite legitimate seeing as to the fact that time and time again groups of people have used what has been said in this book to torture and persecute others and in m
our time to harass those who do not believe. This has been done because of 'facts' stated in the Bible which are indeed often untrue and lies. In this sense this book cannot be considered a spiritual guide since it is used by fundamentalists to justify a mean God.
How can there be justification for cruelty?

When u find cruelty acted out by God in this book it is time to replace it or at least recognize it's spiritual poverty and not try to justify it by saying God could b cruel in one period of time an loving at another time. No wonder there is such mental illness and unkindness in our culture today.... when u follow such a teaching.


Title: Re: The Bible and Christian Dogmatism
Post by: mccoy on Apr 09, 2015 08:47 pm
Well then I might say the fault is the pastors' who are commenting the bible, not necessarily the bible itself.

Also, an abridgement leaving only the new testament would be a drastic but satisfactory possibility.

Can you find anything which may be construed to encourage violence and cruelty in the new testament (Gospel, acts of the apostles, letters of the disciples, Apocalypse?


Title: Re: The Bible and Christian Dogmatism
Post by: Steve Hydonus on Apr 09, 2015 11:44 pm
Well then I might say the fault is the pastors' who are commenting the bible, not necessarily the bible itself.

Also, an abridgement leaving only the new testament would be a drastic but satisfactory possibility.

Can you find anything which may be construed to encourage violence and cruelty in the new testament (Gospel, acts of the apostles, letters of the disciples, Apocalypse?

i apologize for not being able to answer mccoy.... at least not rite now. Something happened to me today that was instigated by your post and our communications. It was a very wonderful experience. I will get back to this thread...
but sometimes words seem meaningless and not able to adequately describe what we experience internally.


Title: Re: The Bible and Christian Dogmatism
Post by: Steve Hydonus on Apr 10, 2015 08:06 pm
Well then I might say the fault is the pastors' who are commenting the bible, not necessarily the bible itself.

Also, an abridgement leaving only the new testament would be a drastic but satisfactory possibility.

Can you find anything which may be construed to encourage violence and cruelty in the new testament (Gospel, acts of the apostles, letters of the disciples, Apocalypse?
http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/cruelty/nt_list.html

Even the New Testament-in many ways-is a continuation of hell fire, and brimstone gnashing of teeth and those who will go to hell. It is not Jesus. It is the way he is portrayed. How can this be taught in a Sunday School class? How is the psychology of fear going to help a new generation?

When i saw Amma speak; She never spoke this way. Her talks portrayed a God of Love... not a God of damnation and hell and fire. I am not saying I agree with everything in this link but let us look at few quotes from the New Testament as well. The language is used in a cruel way and the metaphors are also often menacing. My experience of Jesus is much different!


Title: The New Testament supporting slavery.
Post by: Steve Hydonus on Apr 10, 2015 09:22 pm
Fortunately for us Abraham Lincoln - who Paramahansa Yogananda called a great yogi in a past life - did not follow the advice of the Bible. Imagine how many wars and tens of thousands of deaths were caused by the Bibles support of slavery... not to mention the total disregard for certain races and people.



New Testament Verses:

    Ephesians 6:5-9 (NRSV)

    Slaves, obey your earthly masters with fear and trembling, in singleness of heart, as you obey Christ; not only while being watched, and in order to please them, but as slaves of Christ, doing the will of God from the heart. Render service with enthusiasm, as to the Lord and not to men and women, knowing that whatever good we do, we will receive the same again from the Lord, whether we are slaves or free. And, masters, do the same to them. Stop threatening them, for you know that both of you have the same Master in heaven, and with him there is no partiality.

Christian slaves – treat your masters well. Christian slave masters are directly addressed, and told to treat their slaves well.

    Colossians 3:22-25 (NRSV)

    Slaves, obey your earthly masters in everything, not only while being watched and in order to please them, but wholeheartedly, fearing the Lord. Whatever your task, put yourselves into it, as done for the Lord and not for your masters, since you know that from the Lord you will receive the inheritance as your reward; you serve the Lord Christ. For the wrongdoer will be paid back for whatever wrong has been done, and there is no partiality.

Christian slaves, wholeheartedly obey your masters in everything. If they treat you badly, know that they will get punishment in the next life.

    1 Timothy 6:1-5 (NRSV)

    Let all who are under the yoke of slavery regard their masters as worthy of all honor, so that the name of God and the teaching may not be blasphemed. Those who have believing masters must not be disrespectful to them on the ground that they are members of the church; rather they must serve them all the more, since those who benefit by their service are believers and beloved. Teach and urge these duties. Whoever teaches otherwise and does not agree with the sound words of our Lord Jesus Christ and the teaching that is in accordance with godliness, is conceited, understanding nothing, and has a morbid craving for controversy and for disputes about words. From these come envy, dissension, slander, base suspicions, and wrangling among those who are depraved in mind and bereft of the truth, imagining that godliness is a means of gain.

Christian slaves, obey your masters well – and obey your Christian masters especially well. Anyone who teaches otherwise is going against the words of Jesus, and has a morbid craving for disputes about words.

    Titus 2:9-10,15 (NRSV)

    Tell slaves to be submissive to their masters and to give satisfaction in every respect; they are not to talk back, not to pilfer, but to show complete and perfect fidelity, so that in everything they may be an ornament to the doctrine of God our Savior. … Declare these things; exhort and reprove with all authority. Let no one look down on you.


Title: The New Testament and the Subjugation of Women
Post by: Steve Hydonus on Apr 10, 2015 09:32 pm
Jesus says that divorce is permissible when the wife is guilty of fornication. But what if the husband is unfaithful? Jesus doesn't seem to care about that. 5:32, 19:h

http://madmikesamerica.com/2011/06/bible-women-should-suffer-in-silence/

11: Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection.
    12: But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.
    14: And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression.
    15: Notwithstanding she shall be saved in childbearing, if they continue in faith and charity and holiness with sobriety.




Title: Re: The Bible and Christian Dogmatism
Post by: mccoy on Apr 10, 2015 10:13 pm
This is taken from the same skeptics site you linked, it is clearly something targeted to guys:

 Matthew:
Quote
5:27 Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not commit adultery: 
5:28 But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.
 


Title: Re: The Bible and Christian Dogmatism
Post by: mccoy on Apr 10, 2015 10:24 pm
Re Paul the apostle: he was evidently pretty much influenced by ortodox old testament teachings.

If we stick to my original observation, those letters you cited, even though not a sign of massive social enlightenment, do not incite to cruelty or violence.

We should know also the context. Maybe there had been bloody riots within slaves and Paul was trying to avoid violence.
Also, slavery in those times was an accepted part of life.
Also, the condition of women was to be very subdued.

Since the main of all Jesus disciples was a woman, Mary Magdalene, to whom Jesus manifested after resurrection before the Others, we should be wary in jumping to conclusions. The truth is that Jesus highly esteemed Magdalene, a woman. More than most male disciples. Whatever else the skeptics want to say, they are forgetting this basic fact.

If anything but the gospels is disturbing in the new testament it may be easily removed. The gospels are the only fundamental part.


Title: Re: The Bible and Christian Dogmatism
Post by: Steve Hydonus on Apr 11, 2015 01:08 am
Re Paul the apostle: he was evidently pretty much influenced by ortodox old testament teachings.

If we stick to my original observation, those letters you cited, even though not a sign of massive social enlightenment, do not incite to cruelty or violence.

We should know also the context. Maybe there had been bloody riots within slaves and Paul was trying to avoid violence.
Also, slavery in those times was an accepted part of life.
Also, the condition of women was to be very subdued.

Since the main of all Jesus disciples was a woman, Mary Magdalene, to whom Jesus manifested after resurrection before the Others, we should be wary in jumping to conclusions. The truth is that Jesus highly esteemed Magdalene, a woman. More than most male disciples. Whatever else the skeptics want to say, they are forgetting this basic fact.

If anything but the gospels is disturbing in the new testament it may be easily removed. The gospels are the only fundamental part.

Since we appear to have similar views Mccoy perhaps we should start a new topic on Jesus. This-the man that changed everything... everything!


Title: Re: The Bible and Christian Dogmatism
Post by: mccoy on Apr 11, 2015 11:43 am
Since we appear to have similar views Mccoy perhaps we should start a new topic on Jesus. This-the man that changed everything... everything!

Let's do that, he's our param-param-param-param guru after all (hope the # of params are all right)


Title: Re: The Bible and Christian Dogmatism
Post by: Steve Hydonus on Apr 11, 2015 06:20 pm
Since we appear to have similar views Mccoy perhaps we should start a new topic on Jesus. This-the man that changed everything... everything!

Let's do that, he's our param-param-param-param guru after all (hope the # of params are all right)

I think that pretty much covers it.... no one's going to call u on it.  :P