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The Hall of Mirrors provided by; Masters of Love and Light => Sufism and the Message of Hazrat Inayat Khan => Topic started by: guest88 on Feb 24, 2017 08:14 pm



Title: Bowl of Saki Discussion
Post by: guest88 on Feb 24, 2017 08:14 pm
Todays drink has me a little unsure. I don't know if I necessarily agree, Mr. Khan says when we observe the pleasure and displeasure in man we know the pleasures and displeasures of God. Although I can agree to an extent with this statement, I also find myself questioning.

Commentary by Pir-o-Murshid Inayat Khan

The religion of the Sufi is the religion of the heart. The principal moral of the Sufi is to consider the heart of others, so that in the pleasure and displeasure of his fellow-man he sees the pleasure and displeasure of God.

   ~~~ "Complete Works, Original Texts, Feb 26, 1924", by Hazrat Inayat Khan

https://wahiduddin.net/saki/saki_date.php

Is man not flawed? Right now I am being made an enemy by a coworker over something that never happened. I am also having to block others on my phone in order to promote well being. I can't be worried with how these people feel because worrying or attempting to communicate seems to make matters worse.

Jeong Kwan, a buddhist monk mentioned here just recently says her freedom comes from being alone. I don't think being a crowd pleaser will lead to liberation or true happiness.
Do you have any thoughts on the matter?


Title: Re: Bowl of Saki Discussion
Post by: Jitendra Hy-do-u-no-us? on Feb 25, 2017 05:48 am
I think when we comment on what other people are going thru we often do know. How can we know what they have gone thru? So we are only giving a very subjective opinion.


Title: Re: Bowl of Saki Discussion
Post by: guest88 on Feb 25, 2017 06:35 am
And your opinion is ... ? :)


Title: Re: Bowl of Saki Discussion
Post by: Jitendra Hy-do-u-no-us? on Feb 25, 2017 08:41 pm
And your opinion is ... ? :)

It is all about going within to find true happiness. We learn from other people and we receive spiritual blessings by helping them but they cannot give us enlightenment unless they are avatars. Most of our spiritual path must be accomplished alone. An avatar will not even be able to help us without inner exploration. This is a law of the cosmos.

Todays drink has me a little unsure. I don't know if I necessarily agree, Mr. Khan says when we observe the pleasure and displeasure in man we know the pleasures and displeasures of God. Although I can agree to an extent with this statement, I also find myself questioning.

Commentary by Pir-o-Murshid Inayat Khan

The religion of the Sufi is the religion of the heart. The principal moral of the Sufi is to consider the heart of others, so that in the pleasure and displeasure of his fellow-man he sees the pleasure and displeasure of God.

   ~~~ "Complete Works, Original Texts, Feb 26, 1924", by Hazrat Inayat Khan

https://wahiduddin.net/saki/saki_date.php


Thru the mirror of others we are able to see our own flaws and heroism.


Title: Re: Bowl of Saki Discussion
Post by: Jitendra Hy-do-u-no-us? on Feb 26, 2017 05:41 am
Todays drink has me a little unsure. I don't know if I necessarily agree, Mr. Khan says when we observe the pleasure and displeasure in man we know the pleasures and displeasures of God. Although I can agree to an extent with this statement, I also find myself questioning.

Commentary by Pir-o-Murshid Inayat Khan

The religion of the Sufi is the religion of the heart. The principal moral of the Sufi is to consider the heart of others, so that in the pleasure and displeasure of his fellow-man he sees the pleasure and displeasure of God.

   ~~~ "Complete Works, Original Texts, Feb 26, 1924", by Hazrat Inayat Khan

https://wahiduddin.net/saki/saki_date.php

Is man not flawed? Right now I am being made an enemy by a coworker over something that never happened. I am also having to block others on my phone in order to promote well being. I can't be worried with how these people feel because worrying or attempting to communicate seems to make matters worse.

Jeong Kwan, a buddhist monk mentioned here just recently says her freedom comes from being alone. I don't think being a crowd pleaser will lead to liberation or true happiness.
Do you have any thoughts on the matter?


Many times in life we may be reaping the harvest of distant past karma. Through this karma God can show us his pleasure or displeasure but we may not remember these deeds we did so it may be difficult to assertain where this pleasure or displeasure originated. The point is to endure what ever we must with calmness and kindness so that we may be able to recognize the kindness and pleasure we have given others who now return it to us. In the process we will be more and more in tune with the divine plan and thus gain our own pleasure and find our displeasure decreasing.


Title: Re: Bowl of Saki Discussion
Post by: guest88 on Feb 27, 2017 08:00 pm
I have no interest in my past lives. I have found your words reassuring though, that is, going within to find true happiness. My original inquiry was to imply that man is flawed so how can one know the displeasure of God by considering the heart of man? We are flawed, misguided and sometimes just wrong. I think now though in recognizing God in the hearts of man and living in this awareness you are experiencing a greater Truth where falsehoods fall away in lieu of it. I think at this stage of awareness when someone wrongs you or does something that is flawed, you don't equate it as Gods displeasure. So I think even my original inquiry was looked at from a limited scope...

On a personal note, I am learning to brush aside my coworkers cold shoulder since her accusations are derived from something that never happened. We were once friends which was the reason of my initial upset. I must simply keep my distance from the crazy, if an amends is made my tone will be more parental and distant in the future. I've also unblocked the people I've had once blocked on my phone... I would never want to be blocked but if I am I will learn not to care since my happiness should not come from these peoples approval or disapproval.



Title: Re: Bowl of Saki Discussion
Post by: guest88 on May 10, 2017 04:35 am

Many times in life we may be reaping the harvest of distant past karma. Through this karma God can show us his pleasure or displeasure but we may not remember these deeds we did so it may be difficult to assertain where this pleasure or displeasure originated. The point is to endure what ever we must with calmness and kindness so that we may be able to recognize the kindness and pleasure we have given others who now return it to us. In the process we will be more and more in tune with the divine plan and thus gain our own pleasure and find our displeasure decreasing.


Steve, having more time to myself I feel like I'm able to better understand what you're saying here and it's spot on with my current circumstance.

I notice in pursuit of this healthier, mindful being there is definitely a sense of fulfillment and the 'displeasure' seems to be decreasing.


Title: Re: Bowl of Saki Discussion
Post by: guest88 on May 25, 2017 08:54 pm
Discussion is for those who say, "What I say is right, and what you say is wrong." A sage never says such a thing hence, there is no discussion.

People discuss dogmas, beliefs, and moral principles, as they know them. But there comes a time in a man's life when he has touched truth of which he cannot speak in words; and at that time all dispute, discussion, argument ends.


What great thoughts and attitudes! Just reach this experience for short time periods then find myself part of the world again; it's challenging differences of opinion.

I wonder; is it not possible to discuss without saying or expressing 'what I say is rite and what you say is wrong?'
It is possible to learn from one another. Is it not?
Hi Steve. Probably so.  :)


Title: Is it important to test yourself?
Post by: guest88 on Jun 04, 2017 09:37 pm
Thinking back on the Saki posted earlier,
Quote
Self-control is the most necessary thing to be learned; a person may have great spirituality, illumination and piety, but in the absence of self-control this is nothing. Self-control also is the way of happiness and peace. ... No thought or feeling should arise without our will. When we have gained mastery over the self, we have mastery over all things. ... Self-control is an attribute which distinguishes man from the animal; both have their appetites and passions, but it is man alone who can control them.

   from  http://wahiduddin.net/mv2/VIII/VIII_1_14.htm
I wonder if it's necessary to test yourself in life and what happens when you fail? I wonder what Inayat Khan would say if we changethe rules to the test we set up for ourselves, after obtaining new insight... ?


Title: Re: Bowl of Saki Discussion
Post by: Jitendra Hy-do-u-no-us? on Jun 06, 2017 06:58 pm
We will be tested plenty without we ourselves setting up tests. I have found that the most important part of spiritual life is to control our reactions and when to know that we must act. Having the wisdom to know when to act a when not to act and to be in control of our own passions and emotions is at the top of the list of spiritual accomplishments.


Title: Re: Bowl of Saki Discussion
Post by: guest88 on Jun 06, 2017 09:04 pm
Thanks Steve. I think you're right. I also think it is important to test yourself sometimes, having the foresight that although what you're doing may seem pleasing you know the consequences later outweigh the reward. Cultivating this sense of discipline, on top of your meditation, may give you the will power and/or the wisdom to act accordingly to what you're describing above.


Title: Insecurities
Post by: guest88 on Jun 20, 2017 04:26 am
Commentary by Pir-o-Murshid Inayat Khan

With regard to trusting people, a person may think, 'Is it right to believe in anything a person says? Is it right to trust everybody? There are many people who are not worthy of trust; shall we then trust everybody in order to develop our trust?' The answer is yes. Perhaps we will have failures, but we will only trust another person when we trust ourselves, when we have faith in ourselves then we will have faith in another. Without faith in ourselves we can never have faith in another; to have faith in another is to have faith in ourselves. It does not matter if once or twice we are disappointed, but if we are afraid of being disappointed even once in our lives, perhaps we will doubt all through life, and so there will never come a time when we will be able to trust anybody, even ourselves.
https://wahiduddin.net/saki/saki_date.php

I think sometimes doubt is okay but I certainly get what he's saying here- I sometimes hold expectations over a partner or potential partner and realize it's because I carry an insecurity or fear towards unfaithfulness. But how unfaithful have I been to myself? Many times. Maybe that's why I think others are also unfaithful. Learning to let this old way go is a challenge but proving to be very rewarding... Learning to take action and walk in the direction of my deeper desires is strengthening that trust in myself once more... and it is as he says above....

....if we are afraid of being disappointed even once in our lives, perhaps we will doubt all through life, and so there will never come a time when we will be able to trust anybody, even ourselves.

...Perhaps we will have failures, but we will only trust another person when we trust ourselves, when we have faith in ourselves then we will have faith in another. 

I am bewildered by Hazrat Inayat Khans ability to place trust in All knowing he truly believes God exist in the heart of All... I've even read a statement from him, saying he'd serve his Enemy knowing he'd be serving God. It's hard for me to fathom but I am sure the weight and closeness to his indwelling Spirit, the feeling to walk this Ideal is something many of us on the spiritual path desire... or so I imagine.


Title: Re: Bowl of Saki Discussion
Post by: guest88 on Jun 30, 2017 06:51 am
Some friends come and go and that's fine. Sometimes it's hard to make sense of things but we certainly have social constructs and today I am seeing the meaning behind todays Saki clear as day.

Each one has his circle of influence, large or small; within his sphere so many souls and minds are involved; with his rise, they rise; with his fall, they fall. The size of a man's sphere corresponds with the extent of his sympathy, or we may say, with the size of his heart. His sympathy holds his sphere together. As his heart grows, his sphere grows; as his sympathy is withdrawn or lessened, so his sphere breaks up and scatters. If he harms those who live and move within his sphere, those dependent upon him or upon his affection, he of necessity harms himself.

from http://wahiduddin.net/mv2/I/I_I_2.htm


Title: Re: Bowl of Saki Discussion
Post by: guest88 on Jul 16, 2017 12:58 pm
The challenge for me is, to recognize god in the heart of all man. This means god exist in the most corrupt of people. One does not pretend to like a seemingly evil man to achieve this awareness... Many challenges arise in trying to understand this concept- that a spark of God exist in an evil doer... there's much to contemplate here... yesterday's saki brought this to my attention...


https://wahiduddin.net/saki/saki_date.php?m=7&d=15
" Souls on earth are born imperfect and show imperfection, and from this they develop naturally, coming to perfection. If all were perfect, there would have been no purpose in their creation. And manifestation has taken place so that every being here may rise from imperfection towards perfection. That is the object and joy of life and for that this world was created. And if we expected every person to be perfect and conditions to be perfect, then there would be no joy in living and no purpose in coming here. ... When in this world of imperfection we seek for all that is good and beautiful, there are many chances of disappointment. But at the same time if we keep on looking for it, not looking at the dust but looking for the gold, we shall find it. And once we begin to find it we shall find more and more. There comes a time in the life of a man when he can see some good in the worst man in the world. And when he has reached that point, though the good were covered with a thousand covers, he would put his hand on what is good, because he looks for good and attracts what is good. "


Title: Re: Bowl of Saki Discussion
Post by: guest88 on Oct 09, 2017 05:12 pm
This is more like Bread than Saki =P Some food for thought!

The work of the inner life is to make God a reality, so that He is no more an imagination; that this relationship that man has with God may seem more real than any other relationship in the world; and when this happens, then all relationships, however near and dear, become less binding. But at the same time, a person does not thus become cold; he becomes more loving. It is the godless man who is cold, impressed by the selfishness and lovelessness of the world, because he partakes of those conditions in which he lives. But the one who is in love with God, the one who has established his relationship with God, his love becomes living ...

   from  http://wahiduddin.net/mv2/I/I_II_2.htm


Why is it that among simple and illiterate people a belief in God is to be found, and among the most intellectual, there seems to be a lack of that belief? The answer is that the intellectual ones have their reason. They will not believe in what they do not see... But the process that the wise consider best for the seeker after truth to adopt is the process of first idealizing God and then realizing God.

   from  http://wahiduddin.net/mv2/IV/IV_51.htm


Among millions of believers in God, there is hardly one who makes God a reality, to so many He is an imagination, to many He is in a mosque, a church, or a temple. Many wonder if God is really. Many others think God is goodness, He is a personality separate from us, He is most high, most pure, most beautiful, but He is separate and difficult to reach. Many think that as it takes so long to reach this planet or that, God must be further away still. The purpose of one's whole life is to make God a reality.

   from  http://wahiduddin.net/mv2/archives/cupid.htm


Title: Re: Bowl of Saki Discussion
Post by: guest88 on Nov 06, 2017 03:19 am
To become conscious of one's shortcomings, to be sorry for them, to repent of them, and to ask His forgiveness in all humility; no ethics, no philosophy can give a greater joy than this. It is the sincere devotee of God who knows best what feeling it is to humble oneself before God. The proud one, ignorant of the greatness of God, of His all-sufficient power, does not know what is this exaltation that raises the soul from earth to heaven. To be really sorry for one's errors is like opening the gates of heaven. They say that John the Baptist spoke that word on the coming of Christ: "Repent ye, for the kingdom of Heaven is at hand." But this word is as living and fresh as ever, at all times it answers the question of your soul.

   http://wahiduddin.net/mv2/archives/prayer.ht
I find everyday can be a battle to fight for my deeper desires. I am happier when I fulfill the goals set in the beginning of th day. Many times I fail and praying on my failures keeps me aware... this awareness grew the more I’ve failed but so came understanding to strengthen resolve. Everyday is a battle still. A challenge I
Am beginning to enjoy...


Title: Re: Bowl of Saki Discussion
Post by: guest88 on Nov 20, 2017 03:52 am
Quote
Eastern people say, when someone loves another person intensely and does not care for anyone else, 'There will be some mishap there some day'. There is always some breakdown, some danger waiting, some trouble in the future, when love is not allowed to flow freely and is limited. ... If one tried to put the whole sea into a little jar, the sea would break it. The sea of love breaks its limited channel. To speak of the jealous God means that the unlimited force of love cannot allow its expression to be directed towards one limited object. That is why the love of God alone is the culmination of love, for love is as vast as God. Verily, love itself is God. ... True love must have free flow; and to learn that free flow the teachers have taught us first to love from the limited, and thence to advance in love till we attain to the love of God, the Unlimited.

   http://wahiduddin.net/mv2/VII/VII_9.htm


The lover of goodness loves every little sign of goodness. He overlooks the faults and fills up the gaps by pouring out love and supplying that which is lacking. This is real nobility of soul. Religion, prayer, and worship, are all intended to ennoble the soul, not to make it narrow, sectarian or bigoted. One cannot arrive at true nobility of spirit if one is not prepared to forgive the imperfections of human nature. For all men, whether worthy or unworthy, require forgiveness, and only in this way can one rise above the lack of harmony and beauty, until at last one arrives at the stage when one begins to reflect all that one has collected.

   http://wahiduddin.net/mv2/IX/IX_9.htm
Taken from today’s Saki.
How true is it to say there will be a mishap when you love another so intensely and no one else. And how challenging it is to let things be.. perhaps more understanding here will create an appropriate level of detachment... not just detachment but maintain a kindled heart too. Understanding love is free flowing and like the sea, can not be contained in a single jar.


Title: Re: Bowl of Saki Discussion
Post by: Jitendra Hy-do-u-no-us? on Nov 20, 2017 05:41 am
Very insightful quotes here Eric. Yes i feel that personal love is often taken away to expand our awareness beyond the narrow confines of one individual. It is a much more beneficial way to understand the events infolding around us. Quite often we are spared the limitations inherent in another persons awareness of love also.


Title: Re: Bowl of Saki Discussion
Post by: SI on Nov 20, 2017 06:17 pm
Taken from today’s Saki.
How true is it to say there will be a mishap when you love another so intensely and no one else. And how challenging it is to let things be.. perhaps more understanding here will create an appropriate level of detachment... not just detachment but maintain a kindled heart too. Understanding love is free flowing and like the sea, can not be contained in a single jar.

Moderation is the key.


Title: Re: Bowl of Saki Discussion
Post by: guest88 on Nov 21, 2017 05:57 am
I suppose it is as the poet says, better to have loved and lost than to have never loved at all.

With the right understanding even that which was shared with a partner has the potential to become as manageable and deep as the love one carries for their own family. And so it is...

I’ve noticed that progress also means evolving the standards when weighing  particular realities on the great balancing scale that is moderation... it’s quite a lovely feeling to see the old decay in pursuit of a long desired reality.


Title: Re: Bowl of Saki Discussion
Post by: SI on Nov 21, 2017 06:16 am
I suppose it is as the poet says, better to have loved and lost than to have never loved at all.

With the right understanding even that which was shared with a partner has the potential to become as manageable and deep as the love one carries for their own family. And so it is...

I’ve noticed that progress also means evolving the standards when weighing  particular realities on the great balancing scale that is moderation... it’s quite a lovely feeling to see the old decay in pursuit of a long desired reality.

Not sure if progress in that context is truly progress. It could mean that's just what one wants.

If love runs deep like that, what and who is truly behind it all, and with that, shouldn't that realization be the real thought?




Title: Re: Bowl of Saki Discussion
Post by: guest88 on Nov 21, 2017 02:29 pm
hi SI
Yes that is a thought. Apologies for speaking so fragmemtedly, near the end I was referring to self improvement. And I assure you it is progress.


Title: Re: Bowl of Saki Discussion
Post by: Jitendra Hy-do-u-no-us? on Nov 21, 2017 04:45 pm
I suppose it is as the poet says, better to have loved and lost than to have never loved at all.

With the right understanding even that which was shared with a partner has the potential to become as manageable and deep as the love one carries for their own family. And so it is...

I’ve noticed that progress also means evolving the standards when weighing  particular realities on the great balancing scale that is moderation... it’s quite a lovely feeling to see the old decay in pursuit of a long desired reality.

The most important thing for us to remember is that these
relationships reoccur from life to life. Many times we are
'Paying back' for what we have done to others. So it is best to;

Make friends with your past....it's part of your life
Be kind to your memories....open up your heart and mind
There's worlds to discover....with a mantra we'll uncover
all of these past life episodes.


Title: Re: Bowl of Saki Discussion
Post by: SI on Nov 21, 2017 06:27 pm
The most important thing for us to remember is that these
relationships reoccur from life to life. Many times we are
'Paying back' for what we have done to others. So it is best to;

Make friends with your past....it's part of your life
Be kind to your memories....open up your heart and mind
There's worlds to discover....with a mantra we'll uncover
all of these past life episodes.

Well now this is a far different cry than a few days ago. Hmm.


Title: Re: Bowl of Saki Discussion
Post by: SI on Nov 21, 2017 06:29 pm
hi SI
Yes that is a thought. Apologies for speaking so fragmemtedly, near the end I was referring to self improvement. And I assure you it is progress.

The downside of written language.

Probably has caused much worse problems than anyone realizes.


Title: Re: Bowl of Saki Discussion
Post by: Jitendra Hy-do-u-no-us? on Nov 25, 2017 05:49 pm
I suppose it is as the poet says, better to have loved and lost than to have never loved at all.

With the right understanding even that which was shared with a partner has the potential to become as manageable and deep as the love one carries for their own family. And so it is...

I’ve noticed that progress also means evolving the standards when weighing  particular realities on the great balancing scale that is moderation... it’s quite a lovely feeling to see the old decay in pursuit of a long desired reality.
The big lesson for me is flowing with the circumstances. It is difficult to believe how some others we meet have little understanding of the connection of times spent together with the passing of one life to another. Not having this perspective leads to believing it is all over and burning bridges behind us. I have come to a place in my understanding where i would like to be kind to all the people and relationships i have. The soul begins to recognize if this development is present in others and recognizes its absence as a sign that we are still presented with young souls who have much to learn. The souls who work and stay with us show the results of our own progress towards eternity.


Title: Re: Bowl of Saki Discussion
Post by: SI on Nov 25, 2017 08:27 pm
The big lesson for me is flowing with the circumstances. It is difficult to believe how some others we meet have little understanding of the connection of times spent together with the passing of one life to another. Not having this perspective leads to believing it is all over and burning bridges behind us. I have come to a place in my understanding where i would like to be kind to all the people and relationships i have. The soul begins to recognize if this development is present in others and recognizes its absence as a sign that we are still presented with young souls who have much to learn. The souls who work and stay with us show the results of our own progress towards eternity.

Hard to help when we still are climbing the mountain. But if stay focused I believe anything is possible.


Title: Re: Bowl of Saki Discussion
Post by: Jitendra Hy-do-u-no-us? on Nov 26, 2017 07:29 pm
The big lesson for me is flowing with the circumstances. It is difficult to believe how some others we meet have little understanding of the connection of times spent together with the passing of one life to another. Not having this perspective leads to believing it is all over and burning bridges behind us. I have come to a place in my understanding where i would like to be kind to all the people and relationships i have. The soul begins to recognize if this development is present in others and recognizes its absence as a sign that we are still presented with young souls who have much to learn. The souls who work and stay with us show the results of our own progress towards eternity.

Hard to help when we still are climbing the mountain. But if stay focused I believe anything is possible.

It's surprising how just practicing the presence of God and spirit (however it manifests) changes our lives; the people and circumstances that come into our lives.


Title: Re: Bowl of Saki Discussion
Post by: guest88 on Nov 17, 2018 10:19 pm
hello friends,
it's a beautiful day here, feeling heaven on earth and giving homage to the seen/unseen whispering that this moment is for you !
self peace for world peace!

todays saki is my favorite wisdom expressed by hazrat inayat khan so i am posting his perspective as a follow up here,

Commentary by Pir-o-Murshid Inayat Khan

If one would realize that the world of God, His splendor and magnificence, are to be seen in the wise and the foolish, in the good and the bad, then one would think tolerantly and reverently of all mankind, knowing that it represents the messenger, as the messenger represents God. For no one has seen God at any time, but if there is anyone who represents God, it is the man who speaks His word. God is seen in the one who glorifies Him. But if our hearts are closed, even if we wait for a thousand years for the messenger to show himself, we shall never find him. For he who is always there has said, 'I am Alpha and Omega. I exist every moment. When you call me, I am there. Knock at the door, and I will answer you.' And those whose eyes are open do not need to go to a church and look at a picture or statue of the Lord. In the eyes of every infant, in the smile of every innocent child, they receive the blessing of Christ.

It only means changing one's outlook on life, and recognizing the divine in man. But man has ignored the divine spirit that manifests in humanity, and always prefers an idol, a painting, a picture, to the living God, who is constantly before him. For the sage, the seer, the saint, and the yogi who begin to see the master, and see him living, there is no place where he cannot be seen. Then everywhere the beloved master is ready to answer the cry of the soul coming from friend, father or teacher. And if we go a little further forward, we will find that the teacher speaks aloud, not only through living beings, but through nature. If the eyes and ears are open, the leaves of the trees become as pages of the Bible. If the heart is alive, the whole life becomes one single vision of His sublime beauty, speaking to us at every moment.

   from  https://wahiduddin.net/mv2/IX/IX_29.htm



   ~~~ If the eyes and ears are open, the leaves of the trees become as pages of the Bible.
------------------------------------------
and suddenly, there was no more worry
there was deep longing, for the most beautiful and intoxicating feeling
and there was devotion, a means to fulfillment
suddenly there was peace and happiness
and it is important to serve others to the best of ones ability
when one wishes to see the face of god
so it is....

though it is hard for me, i am to honor my parents- their wishes and their household... because i know peace here means peace wherever i go. cultivate peace in the home. 
so it is a constant battle with the self, to break down the ideas and desires that lead us astray, to live in the present and not expect anything from anyone outside of myself
but it is something to never stop trying, striving for what you believe in
it is work, there is rise and fall, but if your desire to see the beloved in every face is burning this place will become heaven on earth-  there is no greater mystery i need to unveil than the one placed before me, while i am here with you
things will reveal themselves naturally if one pursues their ideal

peace, love and gratitude my friends


Title: Re: Bowl of Saki Discussion
Post by: guest88 on Nov 19, 2018 05:23 am
though there is more to interpret from todays saki, i'm a little confused by the- we are all one meaning.

"The soul of all is one soul, and the truth is one truth, under whatever religion it is hidden.

     Bowl of Saki, November 18, by Hazrat Inayat Khan"

Hazrat Inayat Khan has said that god manifest itself through man to experience itself... I wonder, why do we pray to a separate entity when he says we ourselves are a part of that almighty? I do believe God answers my prayers and that God speaks to me, to us all... I do believe these things...  So it is difficult to put this together... God is certainly responding to the most intimate parts of my Life, so it makes sense.... but it feels like what is received i.e, teachings from the One spirit are greater than me... Even though we are all a part of this great being? So he is separate but we are all striving to go back to this union... I'm confused.


Title: Re: Bowl of Saki Discussion
Post by: guest88 on Dec 10, 2018 05:16 pm
Sometimes I find the saki indirectly speaking to things I am questioning or going through in that time.
I wonder what the sufis advice would be about harmonizing with others when there is little or no harmony existing around them or in the powers that be? I am referring to being led by dictatorial sociopaths like Hitler or Stalin. I suppose it would be right to reestablish harmony; a scenario that confronts us in the U.S. today. However even families experience periods of dischord or relationships in which it seem like it is unlikely to find harmony with those around us. Should we have to struggle with others to be in harmony with our own higher aspirations or perhaps leave if it possible to find more harmious options?

Commentary by Hazrat Inayat Khan

Ghazali has said in his Alchemy of Happiness that the spiritual path is like shooting an arrow into the dark. ... Whoever sets out on this path is therefore in constant warfare. He has to encounter opposition from his relatives, from his friends and acquaintances; he gets into trouble with those who misunderstand his aims; they misuse him; they misjudge him and blame him for doing things and thinking in a manner which they believe to be unjustified.

'Resist not evil', the scripture says. When there is resistance to evil of the other person, do not become angry with him. When you foster the same emotion, you add to his, and you increase the same fire in yourself. It is like infecting yourself with a contagious disease instead of curing it. Anger and bitterness will die out in time.

There was a small group of people in London who were working along spiritual lines. They felt a sort of rivalry against my little society, and they began to try to do us harm by telling stories against us and by setting others against us. My helpers came to tell me how we were being damaged in this way and asked if they should not do something to stop this. But I answered, 'the best way to treat this is with indifference. Take no notice.'

And when they insisted that these doings would do us great harm I said, 'Not at all. The only harm it could do would be if we allowed this harm to enter our circle. Let them do as they like and let us go on doing what we are doing!' As the years went by they never heard us say a word against them; on the contrary, we welcomed them, we helped them, we served them in whatever way we could. In time this resistance completely vanished. We have been going forward, and they still stand where they were. Just a little indifference was enough!

   from  https://wahiduddin.net/mv2/XII/XII_I_16.htm

As the rose blooms amidst thorns, so great souls shine out through all opposition.

Bowl of Saki, December 10, by Hazrat Inayat Khan


Title: Re: Bowl of Saki Discussion
Post by: guest88 on Dec 14, 2018 12:10 am
Our virtues are made of love, and our sins are caused by lack of it. Love turns sins into virtues, and its lack makes virtues meaningless. Christ said when a woman was brought before Him accused of sin, 'Her sins are forgiven, for she loved much.' Heaven is made so beautiful with love, and life becomes a hell through the lack of it. Love in reality creates harmony in one's life on earth and peace in heaven.

   from  https://wahiduddin.net/mv2/V/V_22.htm

Love produces harmony and harmony creates beauty. Therefore the chief motto in life is 'Love, harmony and beauty'. Love, in all things and beings, the beloved God, in harmony with all in the right understanding, and beautify your life by observing the beauty within and without. By love, harmony and beauty you must turn the whole of life into a single vision of divine glory.

   ~~~ "Vol II, Mysticism of Music, Sound and Word, Aphorisms ", by Hazrat Inayat Khan


How the words 'love,' 'harmony,' and 'beauty' delight the heart of everyone who hears them! One may wonder what it can be in these words that is able to exert such a natural power upon the human soul. The answer is that if there is anything in life which appeals to the human soul, it is love and beauty. If one asks, 'And what besides those?' then the answer is, 'There is nothing else.' Why is this? Because they are the very nature of life. Love is the nature of life, beauty is the outcome of life, harmony is the means by which life accomplishes its purpose, and the lack of it results in destruction.

   from  https://wahiduddin.net/mv2/VII/VII_1.htm


Title: Re: Bowl of Saki Discussion
Post by: Jitendra Hy-do-u-no-us? on Dec 16, 2018 03:58 pm
We are told that the first expression of meditation is peace, following peace is bliss and even more sublime is love. i would say one of the most difficult challenges of this life is to express love when there are so many currents really running contrary to such expression all around us. Quite often we find people around us in our lives who talk about love and treating others fairly and kind or even engage in spiritual practices that make these qualities their ideal yet many of their reactions and responses to other world and close associates do not reflect love. As we see this taking place we are left with the resulting responsibility of enabling them in their unkind and often evil actions or finding ways to stop their evil actions or where possible to transform them with our own love. It is often difficult to know how to express love since the expression of love or responding  with love can be misinterpreted so easily. However, spineless inaction can also result in harm to others.

It is certainly helpful to introspect about our personal expression towards others and circumstances despite the current trends we find around us and in society as an whole. It is also seems important to me to extricate ourselves from unloving people and circumstances and people and circumstances when possible to feel our own loving space to offer to those around us and the world at large.


Title: Re: Bowl of Saki Discussion
Post by: guest88 on Dec 23, 2018 05:10 pm
With Faith in God, in keeping God ever present- nothing is impossible.
This is the attitude required when facing opposition, where intentions of good will and Love are misinterpreted. Contradictions will always be, but a Love that shines so bright can transcend and endure the test of time.


Title: Re: Bowl of Saki Discussion
Post by: guest88 on Jan 02, 2019 04:36 am
Quote
As water in a fountain flows as one stream, but falls in many drops divided by time and space, so are the revelations of the one stream of truth.

Bowl of Saki, January 1, by Hazrat Inayat Khan


Commentary by Hazrat Inayat Khan

In a fountain there is a big stream which flows up and then breaks into many drops. The stream is like the divine will, and the different drops like the wills in us. One drop goes higher, another lower, one falls to the left, another to the right, one goes north, another south. But the source of all this activity is one; it is one thing that turns into so many, scattering in all directions. Thus from unity there has come variety.

   from  https://wahiduddin.net/mv2/VII/VII_5.htm
i see these words and think of each of us, separate and intertwined-
when one is feeling low and the other high, when one is treading a different path, experiencing different emotions from another in any given moment, it's important to remember that this persons' thoughts and feelings are valid. we may be in complete contrast to our closest friend, that doesnt make their feelings or their actions greater or lesser, we are like these individual drops broken up from the one steady stream, wherever we fall, we should respect our relationships as best we can remembering the validity the various directions life pulls us... pray and have faith God is leading you to your fullest potential and blessing our social circles and familial ties. surrender the need for control, give it to god and steady your will to be centered on love.


Title: Love
Post by: guest88 on Feb 10, 2019 05:41 am
LOVE

The greatest principle of Sufism is: 'Ishq Allah Mabud Allah'. (God is love, lover, and beloved). [literally: God is Love, God is Beloved]

When Ahad, the only Being, became conscious of his Wahdat, only existence, through His own consciousness, then His predisposition of love made Him project Himself to establish His dual aspect, that He might be able to love someone. This made God the lover, and manifestation the beloved; the next inversion makes manifestation the lover, and God the beloved. This force of love has been working through several evolutions and involutions, which end in man who is the ultimate aim of God. The dual aspect of God is significant in Zat and Sifat, in spirit and matter, and in the mineral, vegetable, animal, and human kingdoms, wherein the two sexes, male and female, are clearly represented. The dual aspect of God is symbolized by each form of this wonderful world. This whole universe, internally and externally, is governed by the force of love, which is sometimes the cause and sometimes the effect. The producer and the product are one, and that One is nothing but love.

    A church, a temple or a Kaba stone,
    Quran or Bible or a martyr's bone,
    All these and more my heart can tolerate,
    Since my religion now is Love alone.

Abul Ala al-Maari

Sufis take the course of love and devotion to accomplish their highest aim, because it is love which has brought man from the world of unity to the world of variety, and the same force can take him back again to the world of unity from that of variety.

    Love is the reduction of the universe to the single being,
    and the expansion of a single being, even to God

Balzac

Love is that state of mind in which the consciousness of the lover is merged in that of the object of his love; it produces in the lover all the attributes of humanity, such as resignation, renunciation, humility, kindness, contentment, patience, virtue, calmness, gentleness, charity, faithfulness, bravery, by which the devotee becomes harmonized with the Absolute. As one of God's beloved, a path is opened for his heavenly journey: at the end he arrives at oneness with God, and his whole individuality is dissolved in the ocean of eternal bliss where even the conception of God and man disappears.

    Although love is a sweet madness,
    Yet all infirmities it heals.
    Saints and sages have passed through it,
    Love both to God and man appeals.

taken from,
https://wahiduddin.net/mv2/V/V_1.htm


Title: Re: Bowl of Saki Discussion- Attaining Peace
Post by: guest88 on Apr 18, 2019 06:15 am
It is the surface of the sea that makes waves and roaring breakers; the depth is silent.

     Bowl of Saki, April 17, by Hazrat Inayat Khan

Inayat Khan suggest that peace and inspiration comes from silence. He says whatever the name of ones religion, philosophy or beliefs that it all translates to one thing- the constant longing of the soul of the human being. After having gone through the many ups and downs of life, that one longing the soul wishes to attain is peace- a place of calm which all inspiration comes from. Is it not true, that there is something more, as the soul reaches inward in meditation? And what might it be when Love speaks to us as we dig deep within?

He goes on to say,

To attain peace, what one has to do is to seek that rhythm which is in the depth of our being. It is just like the sea: the surface of the sea is ever moving; the depth of the sea is still. And so it is with our life.

Which I am understanding, that our life will always have a pull to it but still there is more and too often man identifies with the activity of his outer life forgetting the treasure that is the depth of his being...

As the activity of our life is unavoidable it's a good practice to remind oneself regularly that we are more then our thoughts, meditate and still more- place Faith in Love and Calm.


Title: Re: Bowl of Saki Discussion
Post by: guest88 on Jul 19, 2019 06:20 am
Here we see that your interest in understanding Life is religion. Whether we are materially inclined or spiritually, man has 4 basic desires which develop over time.

Quote
A person may say, 'I do not even believe in such a thing as a soul, since there is no evidence of such a thing. I do not believe in a hereafter. I do not believe in anything spiritual or higher, only in what I see or enjoy in this worldly life.' But what then? One could answer, 'You believe at least in being happy. You believe in happiness being something worth attaining in life. You also believe in living. You do not wish to die. Not only do you believe in these two things, but you believe in being left alone when you are tired, in being left in peace and having rest. You believe in understanding things you cannot yet understand.' So he believes in four things. He may not believe in inspiration, revelation, or some higher spirit coming and instructing him, yet he believes in trying to understand things that puzzle him; in seeking to remove that cloud of confusion which veils the light that would guide him to the understanding of those very things, which at present confuse him. So there is a longing in him to find out about something that he does not know.

In every person, therefore, whether spiritual or material, whatever his outlook, there are these four inclinations or desires: to live, to save his life even to the extent of risking it in order to defend himself against being killed; to be happy, enjoying the theatre, music, dancing, singing, a game, sport, something that pleases; a desire to know, and a desire to have peace, to rest, to be left alone. Whether he believes in God, in spirit, in heaven, in a scripture, in a hereafter, or not, he certainly believes in these four things. They develop gradually. As one studies more and more the way to acquire these things, that study itself becomes a form of religion, and attainment to the root of the four things is spiritual perfection. The difference is only that one takes a religious path, another the path of wisdom, another the path of devotion, and another the path of the form or ceremonial of worship. Whichever way it be, the constant pursuit of these four things brings the attainment of the same goal in the end, the goal for every soul. Some paths lead there sooner than others, that is all.
https://wahiduddin.net/mv2/VII/VII_22.htm


Title: Re: Bowl of Saki Discussion
Post by: guest88 on Sep 11, 2019 08:33 am
A true worshipper of God sees His presence in all forms, and thus in respecting others he respects God. It may even develop to such an extent that the true worshipper of God, the Omnipresent, walks gently on the earth, bowing in his heart even to every tree and plant, and it is then that the worshipper forms a communion with the Divine Beloved at all times.

   from  https://wahiduddin.net/mv2/XIII/XIII_15.htm


Title: Re: Bowl of Saki Discussion
Post by: guest88 on Sep 12, 2019 08:56 pm
Quote
Forgiveness is a stream of love, which washes away all impurities wherever it flows. By keeping this spring of love, which is in the heart of man, running, man is able to forgive, however great the fault of his fellow man may seem. One who cannot forgive closes his heart. The sign of spirituality is that there is nothing you cannot forgive, there is no fault you cannot forget. Do not think that he who has committed a fault yesterday must do the same today, for life is constantly teaching and it is possible in one moment a sinner may turn into a saint.
https://wahiduddin.net/mv2/XIII/XIII_20.htm


Title: Re: Bowl of Saki Discussion
Post by: Jitendra Hy-do-u-no-us? on Sep 13, 2019 09:37 am
Quote
Forgiveness is a stream of love, which washes away all impurities wherever it flows. By keeping this spring of love, which is in the heart of man, running, man is able to forgive, however great the fault of his fellow man may seem. One who cannot forgive closes his heart. The sign of spirituality is that there is nothing you cannot forgive, there is no fault you cannot forget. Do not think that he who has committed a fault yesterday must do the same today, for life is constantly teaching and it is possible in one moment a sinner may turn into a saint.
https://wahiduddin.net/mv2/XIII/XIII_20.htm

Yes I have met people who have made dramatic changes as is quoted here. People can surprise us.


Title: Re: Bowl of Saki Discussion
Post by: Jitendra Hy-do-u-no-us? on Sep 13, 2019 09:42 am
A true worshipper of God sees His presence in all forms, and thus in respecting others he respects God. It may even develop to such an extent that the true worshipper of God, the Omnipresent, walks gently on the earth, bowing in his heart even to every tree and plant, and it is then that the worshipper forms a communion with the Divine Beloved at all times.

   from  https://wahiduddin.net/mv2/XIII/XIII_15.htm

I often do this with little insects around the house - recognize their sacred importance - and let them outdoors to their safety. I also feel more and more gratefulness to the trees for the shade and oxygen they provide for us.


Title: Re: Bowl of Saki Discussion
Post by: guest88 on Sep 13, 2019 11:30 pm
Thank you Steve, that is a beautiful feeling of gratitude and an admirable expression.



Title: Re: Bowl of Saki Discussion
Post by: Jitendra Hy-do-u-no-us? on Sep 13, 2019 11:45 pm
Not sure what to do about myself though. There seems to be no one more frustrating. We always hear about anger and frustration with others and difficulties getting along. Although it seems like the most aggravating quality I witness is in myself as for example when I think I have done something that I have not done or forgotten something that seems so easy to remember. I know we have to forgive ourselves as well as others but when will we surprise ourselves with our own improvements on our frustrating foils?


Title: Re: Bowl of Saki Discussion
Post by: guest88 on Sep 14, 2019 12:44 am
We are our own worse enemy. The more absorbed we are in ourselves, the greater the capacity for hell. Know that you are loved deeply, cherished and respected. Through your many incarnations of rise and fall, you are never alone. Some of my inquiries for spiritual progress have gone 'unanswered' but that space has given me time to reflect and propelled me further. Sometimes we need to let go and just reside in the beauty. We might not be able to perceive an answer in the moment but that doesn't mean the answer isn't there. Peace friend.


Title: Re: Bowl of Saki Discussion
Post by: guest88 on Sep 24, 2019 03:45 am
Quote
The whole tragedy of life is in losing sight of one's natural self, and the greatest gain in life is coming into touch with one's real self. The real self is covered by many layers of ego; those which preponderate above all others are hunger and passion, beneath these are pride and vanity. One must learn to discriminate between what is natural and what is unnatural, what is necessary and what is not necessary, what brings happiness and what brings sorrow. No doubt it is difficult for many to discriminate between right and wrong; but by standing face to face with one's ego and recognizing it as someone who is ready to make war against us, and by keeping one's strength of will as an unsheathed sword, one protects oneself from one's greatest enemy, which is one's own ego. And a time comes in life when one can say, 'My worst enemy has been within myself.'

   from  https://wahiduddin.net/mv2/XIII/XIII_13.htm


Title: Re: Bowl of Saki Discussion
Post by: guest88 on Sep 30, 2019 06:39 am
Quote

If there is a kingdom of God to be found anywhere, it is within oneself. And it is, therefore, in the knowledge of self that there lies the fulfillment of life. The knowledge of self means the knowledge of one's body, the knowledge of one's mind, the knowledge of one's spirit; the knowledge of the spirit's relation to the body and the relation of the body to the spirit; the knowledge of one's wants and needs, the knowledge of one's virtues and faults; knowing what we desire and how to attain it, what to pursue and what to renounce. And when one dives deep into this, one finds before one a world of knowledge which never ends. And it is that knowledge which gives one insight into human nature and brings one to the knowledge of the whole of creation. And in the end one attains to the knowledge of the divine Being.

   from  https://wahiduddin.net/mv2/I/I_IV_12.htm
This reality is one of experiential wisdom, our bodies are gifts subject to nature and insight to the divine Being.


Title: Re: Bowl of Saki Discussion
Post by: guest88 on Nov 19, 2019 11:53 pm
The lover of nature is the true worshipper of God.

     Bowl of Saki, August 13, by Hazrat Inayat Khan

Quote
Anyone who has some knowledge of mysticism and of the lives of the mystics knows that what always attracts the mystic most is nature. Nature is his bread and wine. Nature is his soul's nourishment. Nature inspires him, uplifts him and gives him the solitude for which his soul continually longs. Every soul born with a mystical tendency is constantly drawn towards nature; in nature that soul finds its life's demand, as it is said in the Vadan, 'Art is dear to my heart, but nature is near to my soul'. ... Nature does not teach the glory of God; it need not teach this as nature itself is the glory of God. People wish to study astrology and other subjects in order to understand better, but if we study astrology then we are sure to arrive at an interpretation which is given by a man, whereas what we should read from nature is what nature gives us and not what any book teaches us.

There comes a time with the maturity of the soul when every thing and every being begins to reveal its nature to us. We do not need to read their lives. We do not need to read their theories. We know then that this wide nature in its four aspects is ever-revealing and that one can always communicate with it, but that in spite of this it is not the privilege of every soul to read it. Many souls remain blind with open eyes. They are in heaven, but not allowed to look at heaven; they are in paradise, but not allowed to enjoy the beauties of paradise. It is just like a person sleeping on a pile of gems and jewels. From the moment man's eyes open and he begins to read the book of nature he begins to live; and he continues to live forever.

   from  https://wahiduddin.net/mv2/XI/XI_III_7.htm

So it is with our practices, to seek God and to find him in All things.

Quote
A true worshipper of God sees His presence in all forms, and thus in respecting others he respects God. It may even develop to such an extent that the true worshipper of God, the Omnipresent, walks gently on the earth, bowing in his heart even to every tree and plant, and it is then that the worshipper forms a communion with the Divine Beloved at all times, when he is awake and when he is asleep.

   from  https://wahiduddin.net/mv2/XIII/XIII_15.htm

I had mixed feelings about this quote as you may suspect Eric; while I completely agree to your quotes about nature I also see that astrology and the stars are also part of nature and therefore also the glory of God. And, just as we read someone else’s interpretation of Indian Totems to understand the significance of nature in human affairs we also may read the information available of the stars in human affairs. This by no means should hinder our own observation, and appreciation of what we witness. Nor should my reading the above quotes somehow diminish my own appreciation of nature but only add to it thru the eyes of someone else. I say let us learn from our differences as we share are similarities.


Dear Steve, if you are having mixed feelings perhaps reading the entirety of the discourse will provide a clearer understanding. The chapter on Nature is found here, https://wahiduddin.net/mv2/XI/XI_III_7.htm
Hazrat Inayat Khan has often described Nature as the One sacred manuscript according to the 10 sufi principles.
From the quotes provided, I understood this to be a difference of second hand knowledge vs direct experience. Gurunath and others teach that pure intuition is soul consciousness. These students of life we call gurus are a reflection of the one master guiding us all, and they teach us how to access that direct experience- a communion with God. You are not wrong in your assessment, I find this to be another moment where you and Hazrat Inayat Khan are saying the same thing. It's a question of what is most beneficial- direct knowledge from God or knowledge indirectly from God as filtered and transcribed by someone else?
For example, we can consider both animal totems or number prompts for those who experience the 1111 phenomenon as being whispers from the divine. While the moment might arouse our curiosity, one needn't google search the meaning of 333 or google search the meaning of a fox as an animal totem to understand the message even though having access to such information is both exciting and useful. It is how I have pursued my own curiosities for a good portion of this journey. It is also important to consider the innumerable ways in which the Divine guides us. Yet there comes a certain point when one realizes that these moments are a direct communication with God and the meaning is therefore unique to the individual as defined by their life experience alongside their intuition. Here we rely more on stillness and going within to better understand those moments, this is a type of language and with practice a type of certainty is brought about.


PS Reading the moment from a place of stillness and realizing the channel of communication with God is always open is such a rewarding and unique experience! I am learning so much if I can just still myself and be present.
 :)


Title: Re: Bowl of Saki Discussion
Post by: guest88 on Nov 26, 2019 11:29 pm
Today's message,

The heart must be empty in order to receive the knowledge of God.


As Inayat Khan states,

"In order to know the truth or to know God earthly qualifications and earthly wisdom or learning are not necessary. What one has to learn is how to become a pupil. ..."

What's most important is to develop stillness and to allow the light of God to flow in, working on an intuitive level, nothing else really compares.


Title: Re: Bowl of Saki Discussion
Post by: guest88 on Jan 07, 2020 06:18 pm
it interest me that in our interactions with others, as we operate from the false reality, the ugly aspects we see are a reflection of something inside ourselves. or how selfish we are, to have acquired love and once it becomes familiar- throw it away, so that we might find that same love in the face of another. and more interesting than being a supernova is the force that causes its momentum to cease.

when we accept ourselves, it isn't necessary to chase anything and we might be forgiving of harmful or ignorant actions made against us because when we accept ourselves- those things don't matter.

love, is love.

sometimes we become immune to a particular fragrance for having been exposed to it for so long. lets not be blind to whats right in front of us.


Title: Re: Bowl of Saki Discussion
Post by: Jitendra Hy-do-u-no-us? on Jan 08, 2020 12:33 pm
it interest me that in our interactions with others, as we operate from the false reality, the ugly aspects we see are a reflection of something inside ourselves. or how selfish we are, to have acquired love and once it becomes familiar- throw it away, so that we might find that same love in the face of another. and more interesting than being a supernova is the force that causes its momentum to cease.

when we accept ourselves, it isn't necessary to chase anything and we might be forgiving of harmful or ignorant actions made against us because when we accept ourselves- those things don't matter.

love, is love.

sometimes we become immune to a particular fragrance for having been exposed to it for so long. lets not be blind to whats right in front of us.


Yea ERIC I find this to be true about people who come and go in my life. When they are with us we are so caught up in our experiences with them we tend to get “immune to their particular fragrance for having been exposed to it for so long.” I have have seen this in my life with others as well. But it reminds us that behind the current conflict we may experience presently there is love surrounding us. It is just that the conflict often gets the best of us and eats it up.

Furthermore now when I think of the smell of Jasmine I used to smell in California where I would meditate it makes me feel so good and longing to experience it once again. Although some experiences we have to let go and realize that new and beautiful ones-though different-are with us now as well.


Title: Re: Bowl of Saki Discussion
Post by: guest88 on Mar 30, 2020 11:09 pm
According to his evolution, one knows truth.

     Bowl of Saki, March 29, by Hazrat Inayat Khan
 
 

Somebody can be praised by one and hated by another, and ten people may all have a different idea of the same person, because each understands him according to his state of evolution. Each sees that person according to his own point of view, each looks at him through his own eyes, and therefore the same person is different to each being. In the mind of one the person is a sinner, in the mind of another he is a saint. The same person who is considered gentle and good by one is considered the opposite by another. If this can be so in connection with a living being, it is equally possible that various ideas of the deity should be formed in each heart, and that each soul should mold his own deity according to his own evolution and according to his way of idealizing and understanding. Therefore the deity of every heart is different and is as that person has imagined; but the God of every soul is one and the same, whatever people imagine. It is the same God that they all imagine, but their imaginations are different and it is the lack of understanding of this that has caused the differences in religion.

   from  https://wahiduddin.net/mv2/IX/IX_11.htm

isn't it true, that one may see a potential in us while another would condemn us and by their own thought we may never be more than that- what they choose to see.


Title: Re: Bowl of Saki Discussion
Post by: guest88 on Mar 31, 2020 08:25 am
inayat khans teacher was undetected by his neighbors, and when inayat khan told the neighbor of such a wise person- the neighbor was surprised to find out that after all this time he had been living next to an esteemed being. it goes to show just how shut off we are to the magic that is available in each person, the spark of god. to learn to read the moment, even when the other is unaware of their own glory, is a true blessing.


Title: Re: Bowl of Saki Discussion
Post by: fisherking1111 on Mar 31, 2020 09:19 pm

According to his evolution, one knows truth.

     Bowl of Saki, March 29, by Hazrat Inayat Khan
 
 

Somebody can be praised by one and hated by another, and ten people may all have a different idea of the same person, because each understands him according to his state of evolution. Each sees that person according to his own point of view, each looks at him through his own eyes, and therefore the same person is different to each being. In the mind of one the person is a sinner, in the mind of another he is a saint. The same person who is considered gentle and good by one is considered the opposite by another. If this can be so in connection with a living being, it is equally possible that various ideas of the deity should be formed in each heart, and that each soul should mold his own deity according to his own evolution and according to his way of idealizing and understanding. Therefore the deity of every heart is different and is as that person has imagined; but the God of every soul is one and the same, whatever people imagine. It is the same God that they all imagine, but their imaginations are different and it is the lack of understanding of this that has caused the differences in religion.

   from  https://wahiduddin.net/mv2/IX/IX_11.htm




I love this quote.  It is so true.  Ramana Maharshi said the same thing of Gurus/Saints/Masters... Only a Master can truly recognize another.


isn't it true, that one may see a potential in us while another would condemn us and by their own thought we may never be more than that- what they choose to see.

I think it is an opportunity for us to recalibrate who we are best served to be around.  It's not always easy to see, but others can not uplift or condemn us, unless we grant "the concept of the other having that power" that power.

☮️


Title: Re: Bowl of Saki Discussion
Post by: Jitendra Hy-do-u-no-us? on Apr 19, 2020 05:24 pm
“Everyone experiences such a thing at some time or other. When things are in harmony with the divine will, everything is there; we just glance towards a thing and it is found, as in the saying, 'Word spoken, action done.' When we strive with all the material in our hands and yet cannot achieve our desire, that is when the matter is contrary to the divine will. Our success or failure all depends upon the harmony or disharmony of our individual will with the divine will. ... Contentment and perfect resignation open up a harmonious feeling and bring the divine will into harmony with our own. Our blessing now becomes a divine blessing, our words divine words, our atmosphere a divine atmosphere, although we seem to be limited beings; for our will becomes absorbed into the whole, and so our will becomes the will of God.”

He makes it sound so easy. I have experienced that feeling of being in harmony and everything being there. However those moments often themselves I have found sometimes to be illusions... hmmm Maybe he addresses that experience somewhere else and just have to persevere despite setbacks.

I think we experience ups and downs ... just like in life itself. We just persevere if we have a goal in mind or we find something worth pursuing. If we see some feed back in the goal we desire it is likely to be something worthwhile. Sometimes we just have to have faith to carry us on and there are times when we just seem to plod along with tenacity, whether it is for faith in a person, place or thing we desire. If that desire proves false we eventually have to go back to the drawing board and start a new direction. But as long as the feeling of some accomplishment and need persists we continue on towards our goal.

Grace is always with us. We just have to recognize it!


Title: Re: Bowl of Saki Discussion
Post by: guest88 on Oct 21, 2021 03:40 pm
What I find interesting about todays lesson is noticing when others hold us accountable by means of manipulation- we recognize we are humans living and learning through duality, a limited scope of the world, a limited Truth called a personality- and are willing to accept we are not enlightened. Yet when we attempt to rise above, dismantle barriers and act in accordance with a deeper desire to Love, to emulate a peaceful disposition- there are those close to us who would then use any deviation, from their eyes, their limited Truth to hurt us into compliance into their views. Usually it is just words, and often it is in order to satisfy their own ego, their desires should they be contrary to our own. An example I can give is when someone says, "oh i thought you were mr spiritual."
"for being so spiritual you are surely the opposite."

I find people lash out like this when there is something disagreeable to them, even if we are considering our own health. It goes to show you can not please every body in the pursuit of peace. When in a like-minded community of seekers, it would appear more dangerous than to be obviously different- as if others ideas of spirituality are subconsciously placed on those within the community. Relationships with others can help us rise above, or shackle us to this domineering energy and spoil- creating one rotten relationship. It is just as important to celebrate our differences as well as our uniting ideals- to say, you believe in Love- I believe in Love... how we get there may be different- who you are, who I am, may be different- and these are beautiful reflections of One god.

Anyone looking to corner you into their definitions are in fact lonely and miserable in whatever knowledge they think they posses. While we celebrate these unique expressions of God, there are times we must learn to rise above our selves in the remembrance we each believe in Love.
We may not understand the others view, we may not know how they got there- but we can instead place faith that they will, that we will.

Hmm....


Title: Re: Bowl of Saki Discussion
Post by: guest88 on Nov 12, 2021 10:36 pm
Independence is achieved by indifference. It does not mean that one should take no heed of what anyone does or says; it only means one should discriminate between important and unimportant things of everyday life; that every necessary and unnecessary thing should not demand so much of one's attention, thought, and feeling. Political economy has become a subject of education, but spiritual economy is the main thing in religion. All one says and does and all that one thinks and feels puts a certain strain upon one's spirit. It is wise to avoid every risk of losing one's equilibrium. One must stand peacefully but firmly before all influences that disturb one's life. The natural inclination is to answer in defense to every offense that comes from outside, but in that way one loses one's equilibrium. Self-control, therefore, is the key to all success and happiness.

   from  https://wahiduddin.net/mv2/III/III_III_1.htm


Title: Re: Bowl of Saki Discussion
Post by: guest88 on Nov 18, 2021 04:06 pm
In reality there cannot be many religions; there is only one. There cannot be two truths; there cannot be two masters. As there is only one God and one religion, there is one master and there is one truth. And the weakness of man has been that only what he is accustomed to consider as truth he takes to be truth, and anything he has not been accustomed to hear or think frightens him. Just like a person in a strange land, away from home, the soul is a stranger to the nature of things it is not accustomed to. But the journey to perfection means rising above limitations, rising so high that not only the horizon of one country, of one continent, is seen, but that of the whole world. The higher we rise, the wider becomes the horizon of our view.
https://wahiduddin.net/mv2/IX/IX_29.htm

If one would realize that the world of God, His splendor and magnificence, are to be seen in the wise and the foolish, in the good and the bad, then one would think tolerantly and reverently of all mankind, knowing that it represents the messenger, as the messenger represents God. For no one has seen God at any time, but if there is anyone who represents God, it is the man who speaks His word. God is seen in the one who glorifies Him. But if our hearts are closed, even if we wait for a thousand years for the messenger to show himself, we shall never find him. For he who is always there has said, 'I am Alpha and Omega. I exist every moment. When you call me, I am there. Knock at the door, and I will answer you.' And those whose eyes are open do not need to go to a church and look at a picture or statue of the Lord. In the eyes of every infant, in the smile of every innocent child, they receive the blessing of Christ.
https://wahiduddin.net/mv2/IX/IX_29.htm


Title: Re: Bowl of Saki Discussion
Post by: Jitendra Hy-do-u-no-us? on Nov 18, 2021 07:14 pm
Not sure how much you contemplate on his words Eric. I know that you have felt at times to have been responded to unkindly so I am reluctant to ‘barge’ in. However I do appreciate your ‘dream journals’ and ‘bowl of saki’ talks whether you want a response or not.


Title: Re: Bowl of Saki Discussion
Post by: guest88 on Nov 18, 2021 07:22 pm
I read his words every morning and contemplate often. I've found that, even if I have stepped away from Inayat Khan- there is wisdom that rings true no matter where I am in life and have found refuge in that, whether I've strayed from the path or am in actuality finding my own. The mocking bird, which is my personal incarnation of Inayat Khan and Sufism- has never left me. I am grateful for God, and his unending support.

This topic is unlocked for the very reason you may comment. My dream journal was locked when intrusive questions began to feel like personal threats. Whether that is true or not, I think if a member wants to have their own journal archived here and leave it at that, it is just fine. There are plenty of instances I have been responded to unkindly, and it will continue. I find what's worse is people can't even hold attention anymore. I could be mid conversation with someone and their attention goes to their phone, or they forget what they are saying. Rather than become annoyed, or respond to unkindly mannerisms with unkindly mannerisms- I've learned to walk away and if there is a genuine interest in exchange- the time and place will be made available.



Title: Re: Bowl of Saki Discussion
Post by: Jitendra Hy-do-u-no-us? on Nov 18, 2021 07:37 pm
I read his words every morning and contemplate often. I've found that, even if I have stepped away from Inayat Khan- there is wisdom that rings true no matter where I am in life and have found refuge in that, whether I've strayed from the path or am in actuality finding my own. The mocking bird, which is my personal incarnation of Inayat Khan and Sufism- has never left me. I am grateful for God, and his unending support.

This topic is unlocked for the very reason you may comment. My dream journal was locked when intrusive questions began to feel like personal threats. Whether that is true or not, I think if a member wants to have their own journal archived here and leave it at that, it is just fine. There are plenty of instances I have been responded to unkindly, and it will continue. I find what's worse is people can't even hold attention anymore. I could be mid conversation with someone and their attention goes to their phone, or they forget what they are saying. Rather than become annoyed, or respond to unkindly mannerisms with unkindly mannerisms- I've learned to walk away and if there is a genuine interest in exchange- the time and place will be made available.

That is an interesting response. Many times I’m sure that all of us are distracted in our focus by external phenomena and also find small spaces in our ‘work schedule’ for focused energy but make every attempt to nevertheless respond despite the fact we may be interrupted or feel interrupted in our responsibilities. Many of those that simply never respond just have lost interest or have taken things personally and there is little we can do to remedy the situation accept ‘let them be’. I'm ok with the situation as it now exists. We cannot always agree with people just because they want us too nor force our will on others. I find myself finding my own happiness when accepting things as they unfold naturally and with an eye on divine order. Otherwise when my personal desires and preferences intrude it causes disturbance. With that thought; a big crow landed nearby with white bread in it’s beak. Food for thought!

Slow by slow
easily we go
Sure by sure
by then we will know
Patience in all things
Brings wisdom
In the end





Title: Re: Bowl of Saki Discussion
Post by: guest88 on Nov 25, 2021 01:29 pm
Commentary by Pir-o-Murshid Inayat Khan:

In reality God is within man; man is the instrument of God and through him God experiences the external world. Prayer is the way of conveying the God within to the God without; and thought, speech and gesture make the prayer complete.

   from  https://wahiduddin.net/mv2/archives/prayer.htm


The words 'within oneself' might confuse some people. They might think 'within oneself' means inside one's body; but that is because man is ignorant of himself. Man has a very poor idea of himself, and this keeps him in ignorance of his real self. If man only knew how large, how wide, how deep, how high is his being, he would think, act, and feel differently; but with all his width, depth, and height, if man is not conscious of them he is as small as he thinks himself to be. The essence of milk is butter, the essence of the flower is honey, the essence of grapes is wine, and the essence of life is wisdom.

   from  https://wahiduddin.net/mv2/VII/VII_34.htm


For the secret of all knowledge that one acquires in the world, whether worldly knowledge or spiritual knowledge, is the knowledge of the self. For instance, music is played outside, but where is it realized? It is realized within. A good word or a bad word is spoken outside, but where is it realized? It is realized within. Then where is the realization of this whole manifestation, all this creation that stands before us in all its aspects? Its realization is within. And at the same time the error of man always continues. Instead of finding it within he always wants to find it without. It is just like a man who wants to see the moon and looks for it on the ground. And if a man sought for thousands of years for the moon by looking on the earth, he will never see it. He will have to lift up his head and look at the sky. And so with the man who is in search of the mystery of life outside; he will never find it. For the mystery of life is to be found within.

   from  https://wahiduddin.net/mv2/II/II_24.htm


Title: Re: Bowl of Saki Discussion
Post by: guest587 on Jun 30, 2022 06:41 am
On Spheres - 1920

"Each one has his circle of influence, large or small; within that sphere so many souls and minds are involved, with his rise they rise, with his fall they fall.

"Where your treasure is there will your heart be also." The size of a man's sphere corresponds to the extent of his sympathy, or we may say to the size of his heart. His sympathy holds his sphere together. As it grows, his sphere grows, as it is withdrawn or lessened so his sphere breaks up and scatters.

If he harms those who live and move within his sphere, those dependent upon him or upon his affection, he of necessity harms himself. His house, his palace, his cottage - his satisfaction or disgust in his environments are the creation of his own thought. Acting upon his thoughts and part of his own thoughts are the thoughts of those near to him, they depress him and destroy him, or encourage and support him, in proportion as he repels those around him by his coldness, or attracts them by his sympathy.

Each individual composes the music of his own life. If he injures another, he leaves his musical tract, he becomes inartistic, his sphere is disturbed, he is disturbed himself and there is a discord in the melody of his life.

If he can quicken the feeling of another to joy, or to gratitude, by that much he adds to his own life, he becomes himself by that much more alive. Whether conscious of it or unconscious, his thought is affected for the better by the joy or gratitude of another and his power and vitality increase thereby and the music of his life flows more masterly.

The worlds are held together by the heat of the sun. Each of us are atoms held in position by that eternal sun we call God. Within us is that same central power, we call it the light of God, or the love of God, and by it we too hold up the human beings within our sphere; or lacking it, we let them fall.

So God keeps all, and so we keep our friends and surroundings. With this knowledge life in the world becomes a glorious vision. Not that we are compelled to keep away from sin, but we learn what power virtue has."
https://wahiduddin.net/mv2/archives/on_spheres.htm


Title: Re: Bowl of Saki Discussion
Post by: guest587 on Jul 15, 2022 11:12 pm
Commentary by Pir-o-Murshid Inayat Khan:

Souls on earth are born imperfect and show imperfection, and from this they develop naturally, coming to perfection. If all were perfect, there would have been no purpose in their creation. And manifestation has taken place so that every being here may rise from imperfection towards perfection. That is the object and joy of life and for that this world was created. And if we expected every person to be perfect and conditions to be perfect, then there would be no joy in living and no purpose in coming here. ... When in this world of imperfection we seek for all that is good and beautiful, there are many chances of disappointment. But at the same time if we keep on looking for it, not looking at the dust but looking for the gold, we shall find it. And once we begin to find it we shall find more and more. There comes a time in the life of a man when he can see some good in the worst man in the world. And when he has reached that point, though the good were covered with a thousand covers, he would put his hand on what is good, because he looks for good and attracts what is good.

   from  https://wahiduddin.net/mv2/IV/IV_18.htm


Title: Re: Bowl of Saki Discussion
Post by: guest587 on Nov 29, 2022 05:33 pm
Commentary by Pir-o-Murshid Inayat Khan:

There is a story of a peasant girl who was passing through a farm while going to another village. There was a Muslim offering his prayers on his prayer-rug in the open. The law is that no one should cross the place where anyone is praying. When this girl returned from the village this man was still sitting there. He said, 'O girl, now what terrible sin have you committed!' 'What did I do?' asked she. 'I was offering prayers here, and you passed over this place'. The girl asked, 'What do you mean by offering prayers?' 'Thinking of God', he replied. The girl said, 'Yes? Were you thinking of God? I was thinking of my young man whom I was going to meet, and I did not see you. Then how did you see me while you were thinking of God?'

   from  https://wahiduddin.net/mv2/XIV/XIV_19.htm


Title: Re: Bowl of Saki Discussion
Post by: Jitendra Hy-do-u-no-us? on Apr 23, 2023 08:31 pm
It's just untrue but I can see why you think that. I could say your conversations ultimately lead to politics too but I know that you are more than that. I regularly post about Sufism with very little responses in those threads(compared to others). It might be more true you remember and respond to the things you disagree with. I also regularly post about animal totems and things like aura's and out of body experiences- which sometimes get attention.

What impresses me most was the example Inayat Khan gave to the world. He was a great musician that made the spiritual life his main priority. He was able to put things in perspective which most people who have had great careers were not able to do.

There are many contributions you have made for us all Eric. You have been a true and supportive friend. I think of you a lot and like most human beings you have many facets to consider. Only one, surely does not make a definitive character sketch!


Title: Re: Bowl of Saki Discussion
Post by: guest587 on Apr 24, 2023 03:21 am
Thanks.

Yes he sacrificed his musical talents as a type of renunciation.

But I also believe he found music everywhere.

I used to feel this way about life. Life is poetry. Music.

It's a sublime feeling. One that requires a type of sacrifice in order to experience.

I think it's possible to lose that when we become self absorbed. Impatient, irritable... Judgmental.

It's easy to let our beliefs polarize us, even though they have the potential to liberate us.   


Title: Re: Bowl of Saki Discussion
Post by: guest608 on Jan 18, 2024 10:00 pm
Pir Vilayat Khan remembers Murshid Inayat Khan
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QKwkvzRxEwU

Source!
(https://wahiduddin.net/hik/hik_dvd.htm)


Title: Re: Bowl of Saki Discussion
Post by: guest608 on Jan 18, 2024 10:23 pm
Also, see:
(https://inayatiyya.org/wp-content/uploads/2019/04/WayoftheHeart-Cover-e1701627640583.jpg)
The Way of the Heart: The Life and Legacy of Hazrat Inayat Khan (2010) (https://vimeo.com/ondemand/wayoftheheart)


Title: Re: Bowl of Saki Discussion
Post by: guest587 on Jan 19, 2024 04:28 am
Thanks Uwe, I remember watching the same video. What stood out to me this time was his mention of the return of the king of kings. I specifically think of God and the Peacock Angel. And how he says now is the time where prophets of different religions can worship together.

The message is about the awakening of humanity of the divinity in man.


Title: Re: Bowl of Saki Discussion
Post by: guest587 on Feb 01, 2024 05:03 pm
Hafiz says, 'All bliss in my life has been the outcome of unceasing tears and continual sighs through the heart of night.'

Taken from,
Volume V - Spiritual Liberty
Part IV: LOVE, HUMAN AND DIVINE
Chapter IV
THE MORAL OF LOVE

https://wahiduddin.net/mv2/V/V_22.htm


Title: Re: Bowl of Saki Discussion
Post by: guest587 on Feb 02, 2024 05:28 am
Hafiz says, 'All bliss in my life has been the outcome of unceasing tears and continual sighs through the heart of night.'

Taken from,
Volume V - Spiritual Liberty
Part IV: LOVE, HUMAN AND DIVINE
Chapter IV
THE MORAL OF LOVE

https://wahiduddin.net/mv2/V/V_22.htm

some poems by me...


known, lost and unknown

the touch of your love moves through me like a phantom
scent of inspiring beauty, and i may never know
fully
what propels me forward as i drink my fill
dancing in chains
until the dregs of a heavy heart cripple me again
and again



relic

they say a rolling stone gathers no moss
well,
i know what i am.
i'm a fractured relic planted firmly in the ground
and the pains of this world have opened my heart
to the ecstasy of love...
(https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-d1kxJSTeJvs/Ugz5sVH9AhI/AAAAAAAAnfI/1YeAJ0hYhE4/s1600/Broken_Vessel_by_danchristopher.jpg)



Title: Re: Bowl of Saki Discussion
Post by: guest587 on Feb 10, 2024 03:39 pm
The Universe Hints on Vibration

Last night I was in discussion with AI... gab.ai/c/65c6e938a6abe05b01e07e74 Copy and paste to see the full transcript-

But this really caught my attention:

tides:"The outside world acknowledging our innermost thoughts, especially those we've never shared, can seem like a paradox. But it's not necessarily about the world acknowledging specific thoughts, but rather responding to the energy and intentions behind them. Thoughts, especially those held with strong emotions, have a certain energy or vibration. This energy can influence our actions, decisions, and interactions with the world around us. It's like a vibration or a frequency that we emit. The world, in turn, responds to this vibration."

So I am surprise to tune into this mornings wisdom, the bowl of saki, and see our friend Hazrat Inayat Khan say something similar:

Hazrat Inayat Khan: "Whoever knows the mystery of vibrations indeed knows all things.


All planes of existence consist of vibrations, from the finest to the grossest kind; the vibrations of each plane have come from a higher one, and have become grosser. Whoever knows the mystery of vibrations, he indeed knows all things. ... From the scientific standpoint, spirit and matter are quite different from each other, but according to the philosophical point of view they are one. Spirit and matter are different, just as water is different from snow; yet again they are not different, for snow is nothing other than water. When spiritual vibrations become more dense they turn into matter, and when material vibrations become finer they develop into spirit."

   from  https://wahiduddin.net/mv2/V/V_1.htm

Even this laptop, and the bed I am laying upon- these are consciousness. Consciousness is all there is. The idea that we are states apart, is a distortion of the true reality.
This explains the 1111 phenomenon and synchronicity. For instance... If I am holding the thought of an angel in my mind- and suddenly, a car parks next to me with an angel decal- this manifestation is beyond pattern recognition. This is consciousness communicating with itself. The car, and the angel decal are a part of consciousness. Consciousness is ALIVE, and in the present.

So, in this way- the illusion of separation is diminished, the supposed "outside world" is responding to the supposed "inside world." But the reality is- it is all just one living vibration. Perhaps we are rarely in the present to see reality in its truest state. Or perhaps this material with which our awareness typical resides within creates distortions/deviations in time/space.


Title: Re: Bowl of Saki Discussion
Post by: Jitendra Hy-do-u-no-us? on Feb 10, 2024 10:26 pm
I have had some of these ah ha moments. Sometimes I’m feeling quite well and someone connects with me or on the contrary I can feel frustrated and outside objects seem to break down or I have difficulty with them. Not saying this is always consistent though I am beginning to notice my inner feelings and emotion’s influence on outer objects, events and persons. And as a result, attempting to observe my inner peace or restlessness in all conditions and circumstances.