Sai Baba transitions on April 24, 2011

[Serena Duvet]

Controversial guru  Sai Baba has passed on...

"Life After Baba"    http://indiatoday.intoday.in/site/story/sathya-sai-babas-legacy-and-power-struggle-for-vast-empire/1/136654.html

Guru corruption:  10 Things we can Learn from the bizarre Case of Sai Baba

http://www.elephantjournal.com/2011/04/10-things-we-can-learn-from-the-bizarre-case-of-sai-baba-a-manifesto-on-reality-based-spiritual-empowerment/

[Jitendra Hy-do-u-no-us?]

Controversial guru  Sai Baba has passed on...

Serena i started reading the 10.... i see one major problem with what i read regarding 10 things we can learn from Sia Baba;The human intellect can not fully understand the significance of many gifted people. Whether or not Sai Baba embodied Godly qualities; to assume that we can attribute Sai Baba's abilities to being a magician is somewhat tantamount to saying that we should also hand it to Christ because of the great tricks he had up his sleeve.

Maybe we should look at the fact that spiritual people, like other great people in their talents, also have a human side. This being so perhaps the divine did not manifest in some as much as others. But the significance of this man is easily seen by the inspiration he has given to many millions. If he did things that were not indicative of divinity perhaps we should also criticize great musicians and artists for inspiring people yet not living lives as inspiring as their works. If we r to b critical of people like SaiBaba, shouldn't the inspiration that they (great artists and musicians) gave also be eclipsed by the lives they lived?

Jitendra

[Serena Duvet]

Sai Baba's foundation runs charitable foundations in 145 countries and

4 free hospitals in India.  Even locally here in Venice California his work

is present and operating:  

http://venicefamilyclinic.org/index.php?view=vfc_news&action=saturdays

But Sai Baba lived in opulence in the midst of great suffering and poverty.  

He financial swindled and sexually molested many people; some were murdered.  

He was personally responsible for creating mass delusions and suffering.

Child molestation is never excusable.  He deluded many with his "tricks."

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/india/8471134/Sathya-Sai-Babas-death-triggers-fight-for-his-5.5-billion-empire.html

http://daily-world-buzz.blogspot.com/2011/04/sai-baba-guru-of-12-billion.html

[Jitendra Hy-do-u-no-us?]

Sai Baba's foundation runs charitable foundations in 145 countries and

4 free hospitals in India.  Even locally here in Venice California his work

is present and operating:  

http://venicefamilyclinic.org/index.php?view=vfc_news&action=saturdays

But Sai Baba lived in opulence in the midst of great suffering and poverty.  

He financial swindled and sexually molested many people; some were murdered.  

He was personally responsible for creating mass delusions and suffering.

Child molestation is never excusable.  He deluded many with his "tricks."

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/india/8471134/Sathya-Sai-Babas-death-triggers-fight-for-his-5.5-billion-empire.html

http://daily-world-buzz.blogspot.com/2011/04/sai-baba-guru-of-12-billion.html

Murdered people? That is quite an accusation. i know very little of this man. But he is no longer around to defend himself.  If no one here follows him or feels close to him we can always take his heading off the forum. i do not pretend to know every aspect of other religions and their leaders or the cultural views that surround all these values. It seems he has also done a lot of good for others and he was one of the most followed spiritual teachers in India. This is y i originally put him on the forum headings. It is obvious that United States has had some hum dingers for spiritual leaders but i live here and know more about them. All of us live and learn.

 i know u feel somewhat personally about this because of the things that u have experienced in life. i hope it does not make u sour about joining any group of spiritual people. We certainly want u here. There r really no spiritual leaders here. We r all learning from our mistakes and from each other. i certainly have learned much from my association to the people at soul searching.

i think that if u feel strongly about it Serena and no one else objects i would b willing to take him off the boards. Perhaps we have enough headings as it is. i would have taken other headings off as well but it is not just up to me and my interests. If u want it left on we can do that also. Let us see if there is any response to this first. i hope that i have responded in a way that shows respect for all concerned. If not let me know. Your views, threads, posts, pictures and friendship is always important to me/us.


Jitendra

[Serena Duvet]

"The human intellect can not fully understand the significance of many gifted people."

I think that something has gone wrong when we do not hold holy men accountable to
the same basic standards of behavior we expect from ordinary people.

Steve, I am not sure what you mean by "remove Sai Baba from the boards." I think
that you should do whatever you think is the right thing to do.  It doesn't appear that
this guru has followers here.

Serena

[yoshi]

Serena wrote:
I think that something has gone wrong when we do not hold holy men accountable to
the same basic standards of behavior we expect from ordinary people.

i agree with u Serena.  it 'blows my mind' that soooooo many have gotten away with cruel acts.  i was 'taken advantage of sexually' by a minister when i was young ( a few other girls too)....what happened to him ?  not much.  he was fired by the church...no jail time...and went on to another career.

i am not going to criticize this 'latest version of sai baba' .....but this fella sure makes me 'scratch my head'.... he was out for grandeur from the start when he announced that he was the reincarnation of 'the original Sai Baba', throughout his life, grandeur, up until he died a billionare....

we do not see True Teachers of God driving rolls royces.....performing magic tricks....announcing that they are reincarnations of Christ, etc

Amma is not like this....Parmahansa Yogananda was/is not like this....Christ.....Mother Theresa....Swami Rama Tirtha...Saint Francis...Sri Yukteswar......etc.   these Saints are/were modest in all ways.....in their actions, lifestyle, and when they speak to us about God.....

when one is ready for help in their search for God....use your common sense...use your intuition....if one is unsure about a Teacher ask someone whom you trust for their help/advice.  when using intuition....look into the Masters eyes and see what feelings come to you. 

when i look into Christs eyes....or Paramahansa Y's....i get butterfly's in the tummy feelings....upward lifting feelings...my heart soars......i feel Love....i feel drawn to them. 

when i look at the fella's eyes who we are speaking about in this post....i get scared...restless...repelled from him and i see no Light in the eyes.

i hope and pray for this fella's devotees....pray and hope they do not prolong God by mourning his death for the rest of their incarnations,,,,rather, they move on and find other True Teachers of God.   i pray and hope.....that they do not pass on a Teacher just because the Teacher is no longer in body...

_/\_

((((( Hugs )))))  & (((((OM)))))
yoshi

[Jitendra Hy-do-u-no-us?]

"The human intellect can not fully understand the significance of many gifted people."

I think that something has gone wrong when we do not hold holy men accountable to
the same basic standards of behavior we expect from ordinary people.

Steve, I am not sure what you mean by "remove Sai Baba from the boards." I think
that you should do whatever you think is the right thing to do.  It doesn't appear that
this guru has followers here.

Serena

Blessings Dear Friend i have removed the heading but left the thread in case someone wants to add to it.

Jitendra

[Lucky Denver]

Hmm, quite interesting, as I really do know hardly anything about this man.

Jitendra brought up an important point early on though; whether one is considered holy or not, we must always remember the human factor.  I, personally, sympathize with the idea of people who have left positive marks on humanity and others while still being imperfect and living less than perfect lives.  For example, referring to the mention of musicians and artists, guys like John Lennon and Bob Marley provided a lot of hope and healing for many through their work, their creative endeavours, and yet in actuality they lived far from what could be considered "holy" lives.

We are ALL human, no matter how holy or unholy our lives and actions are.  No one is less than a human being, and no one is above being human.

(((OM))) to all

Love
Lucky

[Jitendra Hy-do-u-no-us?]

Hmm, quite interesting, as I really do know hardly anything about this man.

Jitendra brought up an important point early on though; whether one is considered holy or not, we must always remember the human factor.  I, personally, sympathize with the idea of people who have left positive marks on humanity and others while still being imperfect and living less than perfect lives.  For example, referring to the mention of musicians and artists, guys like John Lennon and Bob Marley provided a lot of hope and healing for many through their work, their creative endeavours, and yet in actuality they lived far from what could be considered "holy" lives.

We are ALL human, no matter how holy or unholy our lives and actions are.  No one is less than a human being, and no one is above being human.

(((OM))) to all

Love
Lucky

Thanks Lucky i think that Serena started an interesting thread that makes us all look at ourselves as well. Regardless if someone is 'ordinary' or holy men/women they still can have significance that the human intellect cannot fathom. Many people follow people of all kinds of persuasion. Some people think that they r evil others think they r saints and there r many gradations in between. But all will eventually b accountable to basic standards of behavior. Knowing this it gives me pause to judge. i too would like to b forgiven for anything i have done to hurt another human being. Sometimes we look back on our own live(s) and realize that we have incurred many injustices on others. At the time we might have thought we acted under the pretext of kindness and love. We cannot always know how another will interpret our actions. i pray that i am aware of every action that i take that might hurt someone else and want to b able to forgive those actions that others have taken to hurt me so that i too may b forgiven. i thought perhaps that i should remove this thread and was advised to. i have left it out of respect to Serena for starting it. If this was done in poor judgment it will not b the first time.

Jitendra

"The human intellect can not fully understand the significance of many gifted people."

I think that something has gone wrong when we do not hold holy men accountable to
the same basic standards of behavior we expect from ordinary people.

Steve, I am not sure what you mean by "remove Sai Baba from the boards." I think
that you should do whatever you think is the right thing to do.  It doesn't appear that
this guru has followers here.

Serena

[Serena Duvet]

Yes, I think it is wise not to censor the truth.

[Serena Duvet]

~

Sri Sathya Sai Baba, born as Sathyanarayana Raju (23 November 1926 – 24 April 2011, was an Indian guru, spiritual figure, philanthropist, and educator. In 2011, he was listed by the Watkins Review as one of the 100 most spiritually influential people
in the world.  He was described by his devotees as a human incarnation of Shiridi Sai Baba, spiritual saint and miracle worker. 

The apparent materialising of vibhuti (holy ash) and other small objects such as rings, necklaces and watches by Baba has been
a source of both fame and controversy – skeptics consider these simple conjuring tricks while devotees consider them as signs of divinity.  Sathya Sai Baba claimed to be the reincarnation of the spiritual guru, Sai Baba of Shirdi, whose teachings were an eclectic blend of Hindu and Muslim beliefs.

Sathya Sai Baba established schools and colleges, hospitals, and other charitable institutions in India and abroad. The number of
active Sathya Sai Baba followers was estimated in 1999 to be around 6 million, though adherents' estimates are far higher.  Since there are no formal ties of membership, the actual figure may never be known.  The Sathya Sai Organisation reports that there
are an estimated 1,200 Sathya Sai Baba Centers in 114 countries.   In India itself, Sai Baba drew followers from predominantly
upper-middle-class, urban sections of society who have the "most wealth, education and exposure to Western ideas."  He was
a cultural icon in India and drew an audience with presidents and prime ministers from India and beyond who have become his
devotees; in 2002, he claimed to have followers in 178 countries. [Wikipedia]

~

[prabhatsinha]

Hi Steve !
I have an interesting story on this topic.
My wife's family follow satya sai baba. My mother-in-law  regularly visit Puttaparthi and  hold functions at home.
I had aversion for him with the magic he shows and negative reports in media. My wife put a calender of him in
our meditation room. So when I do aarti of God and gurus I have to include him too. Obviously I don't like it.
But after sometime I thought he is a human also made in the image of GOD as our GURU PY says. So I keep doing it.
And the negative feeling has come down somewhat. I don't know what he has done I leave it to GOD as it all is his play.
My wife has changed views about it as she came in contact with Sri Ranjan kumar sinha.

I read a book of Michel graham in which he mentioned about satya sai. These teleporting powers do exist and one can learn it-
he mentioned. But you can do it on a good day but not all the times as disclosed by a closed associate of satya sai.
We had interaction with Madhwanand who used to come to our house and shown many of these powers. My whole family
was charmed. I was a kid then. But after sometimes he lost his powers and the charm too.

I met one Sardari thakur , a humble priest of Oderaghat kali temple. So gentle and humble but with the power to change
person & destiny. He was so gentle that my father put him on some errands as looking after the food preparation in my
brother's marriage and he was doing it lovingly.

[yoshi]

i just want god/liberation....parlor tricks do not matter to me..... <3<3<3

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

((( prabhatsinha )))

thank you for your post.  an excellent point u wrote, worth mentioning again....

""""... he is a human also made in the image of GOD as our GURU PY says.""""

 

(((( Love&Hugs&OM )))
yoshi

[omkar]

Shortly before he left his physical body behind, Paramahansa Yogananda was approached by one of his close American disciples, a woman.  “Master,” she said, “I know you are planning on leaving your body.  You must take me with you!  You are my God!”

“Nonsense,” replied Yogananda. “God is God; I am your Guru.”

“But Master, if you leave without me, I will commit suicide!”

“Enough of that foolishness!  God Himself is now incarnate on Earth, in South India. His name is Sai Baba.  When I leave you are going to live with Him.”  (His prediction proved correct; after Yogananda’s death, that devotee spent the rest of her life at Sai Baba’s ashram.)

Footnote:
This story was related to the author by a woman who was a close friend and caretaker of the Yogananda devotee during the last years of her life. - Quote from this site. -

Another enlightening read here.

And yet another one.

'What you think of me, that I shall be for you.'

[Lucky Denver]

Thank you for that quote Steve, I think PY raises a very, very important point that some tend to forget.

Often, there are people who are so mystified and enchanted by someone who appears to be spiritually adept, that they end up "following" that person too closely, whether it be a priest, guru, saint, etc.  The problem is that, at the end of the day, they are still ALL flesh and blood and bones among us.  In the words posted above, "God is God".  And a guru, is just that, a guru.

At the end of the day, it is wise to follow none other than thy own heart and spirit.  That is where enlightenment, Love, and God are to be found; no other mortal can take you there.

Love to all you doves!
Lucky