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Stillness and Levels of Consciousness


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« on: Oct 16, 2011 05:59 pm »

Once motion seizes spirit manifests~PY It is important to remain still because when there is motion, attention and energy are drawn to the body area where the motion the attention goes to the part associated with the motion. We want to bring the attention from the surface of body to the spine.

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« Reply #1 on: Oct 18, 2011 04:53 pm »

the 'stiller' the mind .... the more superconsciousness can shine forth:)

however,,,,stilling the mind is a challening 'task' !  one must transcend the waking consciousness and subconciousness in order to get to the superconsciousness....

sometimes we get glimpses and short visits to superconsciousness during meditation.....and even playing instruments....or while performing other arts also....painting....etc

this is why many enjoy the arts  Wink
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« Reply #2 on: Oct 19, 2011 10:00 am »

the 'stiller' the mind .... the more superconsciousness can shine forth:)

however,,,,stilling the mind is a challening 'task' !  one must transcend the waking consciousness and subconciousness in order to get to the superconsciousness....

sometimes we get glimpses and short visits to superconsciousness during meditation.....and even playing instruments....or while performing other arts also....painting....etc

this is why many enjoy the arts  Wink


Spiritual experiences r not the same as consciousness. Though consciousness has a relationship to spiritual experience. Yet if we are not elevated in consciousness what do we have to show for ourselves? If we cannot live our truth then our consciousness still needs much work. Yoshi i appreciate your thoughts here. i was looking for the lesson associated with your stream of consciousness but was not able to find that group of SRFlessons. Sometimes we have to go over these ideas in our conscious realization. They r not just to read but to put into practice. We observe our consciousness by how we treat others and how we respond to the experiences of life's challenges. Some people r easy to love because they exemplify love others provide the challenges we need to develop r own. Yes? i have given much reflection to this topic of consciousness. We all resonate with certain ideas and people who promote them. i list some of them who have covered this subject of levels of consciousness. For me David Hawkins has the most understandable and lucid approach.

i know that Freud spoke of the ego id and superego. Carl Jung spoke of the universal consciousness. Jung's theory of personality involves three levels of consciousness. The first level of consciousness is the ego. The ego is the part of the psyche where all conscious thought occurs. The ego is the mediator for the whole psyche but is not the totality of the psyche. The personal unconscious consists of things in a person's psyche that are not conscious but can come into consciousness. The personal unconscious consists of personal experiences. The collective unconscious consists of the part of the psyche that is never conscious and has no basis in experience. It is collective because it consists of the part of the unconscious that is not individual, but universal. This is the place of universal symbols and archetypes.

However for me David Hawkins described the levels of consciousness with great clarity:

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In the book Power vs. Force by David R. Hawkins, there’s a hierarchy of levels of human consciousness. It’s an interesting paradigm. If you read the book, it’s also fairly easy to figure out where you fall on this hierarchy based on your current life situation.

From low to high, the levels of consciousness are: shame, guilt, apathy, grief, fear, desire, anger, pride, courage, neutrality, willingness, acceptance, reason, love, joy, peace, enlightenment.

While we can pop in and out of different levels at various times, usually there’s a predominant “normal” state for us. If you’re reading this blog, chances are you’re at least at the level of courage because if you were at a lower level, you’d likely have no conscious interest in personal growth.

I’ll go over these levels in order, mostly focusing on the ones between courage and reason, since that’s the range where you’re most likely to land. The labels are Hawkins’. The descriptions of each level are based on Hawkins’ descriptions but blended with my own thoughts. Hawkins defines this as a logarithmic scale, so there are far fewer people at the higher levels than at the lower ones. An increase from one level to another will result in enormous change in your life.

Shame – Just a step above death. You’re probably contemplating suicide at this level. Either that or you’re a serial killer. Think of this as self-directed hatred.

Guilt – A step above shame, but you still may be having thoughts of suicide. You think of yourself as a sinner, unable to forgive yourself for past transgressions.

Apathy – Feeling hopeless or victimized. The state of learned helplessness. Many homeless people are stuck here.

Grief – A state of perpetual sadness and loss. You might drop down here after losing a loved one. Depression. Still higher than apathy, since you’re beginning to escape the numbness.

Fear – Seeing the world as dangerous and unsafe. Paranoia. Usually you’ll need help to rise above this level, or you’ll remain trapped for a long time, such as in an abusive relationship.

Desire – Not to be confused with setting and achieving goals, this is the level of addiction, craving, and lust — for money, approval, power, fame, etc. Consumerism. Materialism. This is the level of smoking and drinking and doing drugs.

Anger – the level of frustration, often from not having your desires met at the lower level. This level can spur you to action at higher levels, or it can keep you stuck in hatred. In an abusive relationship, you’ll often see an anger person coupled with a fear person.

Pride – The first level where you start to feel good, but it’s a false feeling. It’s dependent on external circumstances (money, prestige, etc), so it’s vulnerable. Pride can lead to nationalism, racism, and religious wars. Think Nazis. A state of irrational denial and defensiveness. Religious fundamentalism is also stuck at this level. You become so closely enmeshed in your beliefs that you see an attack on your beliefs as an attack on you.

Courage – The first level of true strength. I’ve made a previous post about this level: Courage is the Gateway. This is where you start to see life as challenging and exciting instead of overwhelming. You begin to have an inkling of interest in personal growth, although at this level you’ll probably call it something else like skill-building, career advancement, education, etc. You start to see your future as an improvement upon your past, rather than a continuation of the same.

Neutrality – This level is epitomized by the phrase, “live and let live.” It’s flexible, relaxed, and unattached. Whatever happens, you roll with the punches. You don’t have anything to prove. You feel safe and get along well with other people. A lot of self-employed people are at this level. A very comfortable place. The level of complacency and laziness. You’re taking care of your needs, but you don’t push yourself too hard.

Willingness – Now that you’re basically safe and comfortable, you start using your energy more effectively. Just getting by isn’t good enough anymore. You begin caring about doing a good job — perhaps even your best. You think about time management and productivity and getting organized, things that weren’t so important to you at the level of neutrality. Think of this level as the development of willpower and self-discipline. These people are the “troopers” of society; they get things done well and don’t complain much. If you’re in school, then you’re a really good student; you take your studies seriously and put in the time to do a good job. This is the point where your consciousness becomes more organized and disciplined.

Acceptance – Now a powerful shift happens, and you awaken to the possibilities of living proactively. At the level of willingness you’ve become competent, and now you want to put your abilities to good use. This is the level of setting and achieving goals. I don’t like the label “acceptance” that Hawkins uses here, but it basically means that you begin accepting responsibility for your role in the world. If something isn’t right about your life (your career, your health, your relationship), you define your desired outcome and change it. You start to see the big picture of your life more clearly. This level drives many people to switch careers, start a new business, or change their diets.

Reason – At this level you transcend the emotional aspects of the lower levels and begin to think clearly and rationally. Hawkins defines this as the level of medicine and science. The way I see it, when you reach this level, you become capable of using your reasoning abilities to their fullest extent. You now have the discipline and the proactivity to fully exploit your natural abilities. You’ve reached the point where you say, “Wow. I can do all this stuff, and I know I must put it to good use. So what’s the best use of my talents?” You take a look around the world and start making meaningful contributions. At the very high end, this is the level of Einstein and Freud. It’s probably obvious that most people never reach this level in their entire lives.

Love – I don’t like Hawkins’ label “love” here because this isn’t the emotion of love. It’s unconditional love, a permanent understanding of your connectedness with all that exists. Think compassion. At the level of reason, you live in service to your head. But that eventually becomes a dead end where you fall into the trap of over-intellectualizing. You see that you need a bigger context than just thinking for its own sake. At the level of love, you now place your head and all your other talents and abilities in service to your heart (not your emotions, but your greater sense of right and wrong — your conscience). I see this as the level of awakening to your true purpose. Your motives at this level are pure and uncorrupted by the desires of the ego. This is the level of lifetime service to humanity. Think Gandhi, Mother Teresa, Dr. Albert Schweitzer. At this level you also begin to be guided by a force greater than yourself. It’s a feeling of letting go. Your intuition becomes extremely strong. Hawkins claims this level is reached only by 1 in 250 people during their entire lifetimes.

Joy – A state of pervasive, unshakable happiness. Eckhart Tolle describes this state in The Power of Now. The level of saints and advanced spiritual teachers. Just being around people at this level makes you feel incredible. At this level life is fully guided by synchronicity and intuition. There’s no more need to set goals and make detailed plans — the expansion of your consciousness allows you to operate at a much higher level. A near-death experience can temporarily bump you to this level.

Peace – Total transcendence. Hawkins claims this level is reached only by one person in 10 million.

Enlightenment – The highest level of human consciousness, where humanity blends with divinity. Extremely rare. The level of Krishna, Buddha, and Jesus. Even just thinking about people at this level can raise your consciousness.

I think you’ll find this model worthy of reflection. Not only people but also objects, events, and whole societies can be ranked at these levels. Within your own life, you’ll see that some parts of your life are at different levels than others, but you should be able to identify your current overall level. You might be at the level of neutrality overall but still be addicted to smoking (level of desire). The lower levels you find within yourself will serve as a drag that holds the rest of you back. But you’ll also find higher levels in your life. You may be at the level of acceptance and read a book at the level of reason and feel really inspired. Think about the strongest influences in your life right now. Which ones raise your consciousness? Which ones lower it?

One thing I like about these levels of consciousness is that I can trace back over my own life and see how I’ve been moving through them. I remember being stuck at the level of guilt for a long time – as a child I was indoctrinated into a belief system where I was a helpless sinner, being judged according to the standards of someone at the level of love or higher. From there I graduated to the state of apathy, feeling numb to the whole thing. By high school I had reached the level of pride — I was a straight-A student, captain of the Academic Decathlon team, showered with accolades and awards, but I became dependent on them. I hit the level of Courage in my late teens, but the courage was very unfocused, and I overdid it and got myself into all sorts of trouble. I then spent about a year in neutrality and moved through willingness and acceptance during my 20s with a lot of conscious effort. At present I’m at the level of reason and getting closer and closer to completing the leap to love. I experience the state of love more and more often, and it’s guiding many of my decisions already, but it hasn’t yet stuck as my natural state. I’ve also experienced the state of joy for days at a time, but never with any permanence yet. That state is a pervasive feeling of natural euphoria, as if I’m exploding on the inside with positive energy. It literally forces me to smile. I’ve been in that state for most of this morning, probably because I haven’t eaten anything yet today (I find it easier to hit that state of consciousness when I eat lightly or not at all).

We’ll naturally fluctuate between multiple states throughout the course of any given week, so you’ll probably see a range of 3-4 levels where you spend most of your time. One way to figure out your “natural” state is to think about how you perform under pressure. If you squeeze an orange, you get orange juice because that’s what’s inside. What comes out of you when you get squeezed by external events? Do you become paranoid and shut down (fear)? Do you start yelling at people (anger)? Do you become defensive (pride)? What happens to me under pressure is that I become hyper-analytical, but recently I just had a pressure situation where I handled it mostly by intuition, which was a big change for me. This tells me I’m getting close to the unconditional love state because in that state, intuition can be effectively accessed even under pressure.

Everything in your environment will have an effect on your level of consciousness. TV. Movies. Books. Web sites. People. Places. Objects. Food. If you’re at the level of reason, watching TV news (which is predominantly at the levels of fear and desire) will temporarily lower your consciousness. If you’re at the level of guilt, TV news will actually raise it up.

Progressing from one level to the next requires an enormous amount of energy. I wrote about this previously when discussing quantum leaps. Without conscious effort or the help of others, you’ll likely just stay at your current level until some outside force comes into your life.

Notice the natural progression of levels, and consider what happens when you try to short-cut the process. If you try to reach the level of reason before mastering self-discipline (willingness) and goal-setting (acceptance), you’ll be too disorganized and unfocused to use your mind to its full extent. If you try to push yourself to the level of love before you’ve mastered reason, you’ll suffer from gullibility and may end up in a cult.

Going up even one level can be extremely hard; most people don’t do so in their entire lives. A change in just one level can radically alter everything in your life. This is why people below the level of courage aren’t likely to progress without external help. Courage is required to work on this consciously; it comes down to repeatedly betting your whole reality for the chance to become more conscious and aware. But whenever you reach that next level, you realize clearly that it was a good bet. For example, when you hit the level of courage, all your past fears and false pride seem silly to you now. When you reach the level of acceptance (setting and achieving goals), you look back on the level of willingness and see you were like a mouse running on a treadmill — you were a good runner, but you didn’t pick a direction.

I think the most important work we can do as human beings is to raise our individual level of consciousness. When we do this, we spread higher levels of consciousness to everyone around us. Imagine what an incredible world this would be if we could at least get everyone to the level of acceptance. According to Hawkins 85% of the people on earth live below the level of courage.

When you temporarily experience the higher levels, you can see where you must go next. You have one of those moments of clarity where you understand that things have to change. But when you sink into the lower levels, that memory becomes clouded.

We have to keep consciously taking ourselves back to the sources that can help us complete the next leap. Each step requires different solutions. I recall when making the shift from neutrality to willingness, I listened to time management tapes almost every day. I immersed myself in sources created by people at the level of willingness until I eventually shifted. But a book on time management will be of little use to someone who’s at the level of pride; they’ll reject the very notion with a lot of defensiveness. And time management is meaningless to someone at the level of peace. But you can’t hit the higher levels if you haven’t mastered the basics first. Jesus was a carpenter. Gandhi was a lawyer. Buddha was a prince. We all have to start somewhere.

Look at this hierarchy with an open mind and see if it leads you to new insights that may help you take the next leap in your own life. No levels are any more right or wrong than others. Try not to get your ego wrapped up in the idea of being at any particular level, unless you’re currently at the level of pride of course. Wink

J
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« Reply #3 on: Oct 19, 2011 01:59 pm »

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Spiritual experiences r not the same as consciousness

really Jitendra ??  r u sure about this ??   i oneder where u come up with this ??  Smiley

i am ondering who is david hawkins...i have never heard of that master of god... Smiley

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« Reply #4 on: Oct 24, 2011 09:04 am »

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Spiritual experiences r not the same as consciousness

really Jitendra ??  r u sure about this ??   i oneder where u come up with this ??  Smiley

i am ondering who is david hawkins...i have never heard of that master of god... Smiley

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U r funny Yoshi. Master of God? Not sure about that one. But he has some helpful ideas about the expansion of consciousness. U see we can have many experiences but unless we learn form them and have a corresponding change of consciousness they mean little.

Jitendra
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« Reply #5 on: Oct 24, 2011 02:34 pm »

the more the consciousness is attached to body....the less spiritual experiences we will have.

the more the consicousness is unattached from body...the more spiritual experiences we will have.

in actuality....we do constantly have spiritual experiences....but we are not aware of them due to body consciousness and drama/delusion.  the less we experience drama/delusion/body consciousness the more we will be 'consciously aware' of the spiritual experiences.

god...is consciousness. 'we' are also consciousness.  throughout eons we have forgotten this little factoid. 

we 'fell from god' or 'garden of eden'....meaning our consciousness had attached itself to body form....forgot about god....when in actuality we are consciousness = forever free....forever bliss.  when in 'higher consciousness' or less attached to body....we experience the freedom and bliss.

when in the higher consciousness or in pure consciousness...we lose the attraction or attachment to body. we see thru the drama/delusion of body consciousness.

the whole idea of self realization is to realize we are consciousness and not body....to lose body consciousness and become one with pure/god consciousness.

consciousness has everything to do with spiritual experience.

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« Reply #6 on: Oct 24, 2011 05:27 pm »

the more the consciousness is attached to body....the less spiritual experiences we will have.

the more the conscousness is unattached from body...the more spiritual experiences we will have.

in actuality....we do constantly have spiritual experiences....but we are not aware of them due to body consciousness and drama/delusion.  the less we experience drama/delusion/body consciousness the more we will be 'consciously aware' of the spiritual experiences.

god...is consciousness. 'we' are also consciousness.  throughout eons we have forgotten this little factoid. 

we 'fell from god' or 'garden of eden'....meaning our consciousness had attached itself to body form....forgot about god....when in actuality we are consciousness = forever free....forever bliss.  when in 'higher consciousness' or less attached to body....we experience the freedom and bliss.

when in the higher consciousness or in pure consciousness...we lose the attraction or attachment to body. we see thru the drama/delusion of body consciousness.

the whole idea of self realization is to realize we are consciousness and not body....to lose body consciousness and become one with pure/god consciousness.

consciousness has everything to do with spiritual experience.



If this were true in all ways, why is i that some of those who are attached to body consciousness in the sense of having pain and feeling suffering have beautiful spiritual experiences? It is fine to generalize yet we must also need to remember that many of us go up and down like a yo yo; for months out of body consciousness and then into body consciousness. There is a balance that each of us personally must find without becoming cold to the body and cold to others in the process.... at the same time working towards the higher states of consciousness you speak of.

It is an interesting phenomena that i have noticed; People who have spiritual experiences often become fanatical and want to change everyone around them. Sometimes in the process they loose the human warmth they once had and others loose there attraction to them in the process. We r often leery of forces that come on to us with energy that lacks love and human warmth. Somehow we need to recognize that love, not detachment is what changes others. This has been my 'spiritual experience'. We respect the spiritual experiences of others while understanding that ours may b much different in definition.

It is difficult to preach detachment to the body when we show suffering and physical sensations. These r experiences we strive for while not trying to convert others when we r selves still r in a unbalanced state. Often those who r most detached can show no love or warmth towards others.  It is also easy to profess detachment from our bodies when we r not comfortable with them or feel insecurity about our physical nature. It is something to be aware of in our spiritual growth.

Consciousness and spiritual experience do have a relationship and attitude is part of the awareness of spiritual experience.
If in our spiritual experiences we can translate them to others in a way that shows love then our spiritual experiences r constructive in a social sense as well as a individual sense. If we cannot, they r limited at best and at worst can b interpreted as a callous exercise in human relationships and suppression of human warmth.

Jitendra
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« Reply #7 on: Oct 24, 2011 07:53 pm »

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If this were true in all ways, why is i that some of those who are attached to body consciousness in the sense of having pain and feeling suffering have beautiful spiritual experiences ?

"""the more the consciousness is attached to body....the less spiritual experiences we will have."""

i did not say no or none...i said less....therefore implying that there are spiritual experiences...just not as many as one with less body consciousness has.


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There is a balance that each of us personally must find without becoming cold to the body and cold to others in the process.... at the same time working towards the higher states of consciousness you speak of.

coldness... in the eye of the beholder.  what might seem cold to one person may not be cold to another.  

Quote
It is an interesting phenomena that i have noticed; People who have spiritual experiences often become fanatical and want to change everyone around them. Sometimes in the process they loose the human warmth they once had and others loose there attraction to them in the process.

  
i have found this also...yet i do not see them as 'fanatics'.  i see it as excitement about something good happening to them and want to share this excitement with others.  there is something written about this in the 'science of yoga'....and guruji mentions this phenomena also.

Quote
If in our spiritual experiences we can translate them to others in a way that shows love then our spiritual experiences r constructive in a social sense as well as a individual sense.If we cannot, they r limited at best and at worst can b interpreted as a callous exercise in human relationships and suppression of human warmth.

do we truly think that the masters were never callous towards their 'students'....or seemed insensitive ?  so are students callous towards students too.

my mom called me a few weeks back....she was witness to a 'yogi master' who's name i will not mention....discipline a female student while she was performing yoga in front of a crowd of people and made her cry.  would that not seem callous or insensitive ?  my mom....was dumbfounded by his actions...very upset she was. i told her in response....that the guru disciplines out of concernment towards the student....guru desires success for the student...

the guru did not appear to exude forth 'human warmth' at the time....but in truth,,,,it came from concern.

student to student....callousness can sometimes happen in order to protect oneself...a type of defense.
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« Reply #8 on: Oct 24, 2011 11:00 pm »

For me personally i think that love should b involved in physical expression. The two people involved express love thru physical expression. However for some people physical expression is an end in itself. It is understandable when someone is young and a bit reckless. When we get older we learn to discriminate better and r not as governed by physical appetites. Yet we still express love in various physical ways. When two people r in love they work this out together both considering the needs and aspirations of their partners. It is wonderful to see Amma express love love physically when we r in her presence she also gives us spiritual blessings.

Jitendra
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« Reply #9 on: Oct 25, 2011 04:28 am »


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There is a balance that each of us personally must find without becoming cold to the body and cold to others in the process.... at the same time working towards the higher states of consciousness you speak of.

coldness... in the eye of the beholder.  what might seem cold to one person may not be cold to another.  


I cannot agree with you more Yoshi. When I have disagreements with my wife I always get sick after eating. I realized much later that she puts small amounts of arsenic in my food to get even. She did not think it was cold. It is just a way of determining outcomes.

                                                         alfie
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« Reply #10 on: Oct 25, 2011 11:47 am »

For me personally i think that love should b involved in physical expression. The two people involved express love thru physical expression. However for some people physical expression is an end in itself. It is understandable when someone is young and a bit reckless. When we get older we learn to discriminate better and r not as governed by physical appetites. Yet we still express love in various physical ways. When two people r in love they work this out together both considering the needs and aspirations of their partners. It is wonderful to see Amma express love love physically when we r in her presence she also gives us spiritual blessings.

Jitendra


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Encinitas Retreat – March 14-24, 2006
Thursday Evening Satsanga

Encinitas Temple - Brother Pranavananda

In one of his poems Master wrote, “Understand the thoughts of others, and their meanings, if you would understand your own thoughts. Be kind to others so that you may learn the secret art of being kind to yourself. Finding yourself in others, you will find your true,larger Self. Masquerade no longer behind the mask of false sense-identity. Be your Self and show your Spirit-face undistorted by the camouflage of earthly lusts. Tear apart the star-and blossom-chequered veil of Nature and expose the One God of All to your eager gaze.” ...

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Kriyaban Retreat – Friday Night Welcome Class

Bramacharini Lucy

Master said, “The greatest romance you can have is the romance with God. He is the Lover and our souls are the beloved, and when the soul meets the greatest Lover of the universe, then the eternal romance begins. The love that you have been seeking for incarnations through all human loves is at last yours. You will never want anything else.” (The Divine Romance, pg 451)
God longs for us to feel His love. We just need to open our hearts to receive.

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Sunday Service – Brother Pranavananda

Jesus said, “The harvest truly is plenteous, but the laborers are few. Pray ye therefore the Lord of the harvest, that he will send forth laborers into his harvest.” Jesus is talking about the harvest of God-realization; to realize our true relationship with God - a treasure far greater than anything we can imagine. The harvest of God-realization is abundant beyond measure - eternal wisdom, eternal ever-new bliss, eternal consciousness and immortality. But who will persist? Who will make that kind of effort? There are very few human beings who will persist - who will live a life of discipline, with right living and continuity of meditation from which they may reap in this short season of life the everlasting harvest of God-contact.


My personal thanks go to yoshi for her wisdom expressed in this forum.
« Last Edit: Oct 25, 2011 12:12 pm by omkar » Report Spam   Logged
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« Reply #11 on: Oct 26, 2011 07:42 am »

the word Love is used so much, that context of words and story around the word love shifts the meaning all the way from: Carnal Sensual Lust  to Divine Mercy Compassions  to Transcendent God.  and all kinds of stuff in-between.    I love pizza, but it doesn't love me.    I Love the sunrise, does it love me ?

We may observe what portions of the aparatus (body, mind, spirit) are at play in our experiences to help discern.   
i.e. - How much is the Emotional Glands and Biological Chemicals ?   
i.e. - How much is the Emotional Mind Energy aparatus -- the thought stuff condensed and knoted into Energy?   

There are themes similar in the word Devotion, but I'm afraid this little one has not time to move that direction.

************
Either way, we should be honest that Sexual Organs exist, and that as a gland, and as one of our Centers of Energy... we must find harmony with that portion...
Yes, there is a capacity for Sexual Healing... (via Sexual Act or other less sexual acts)... 
but there is also a capacity to be lost as the moth to the flame into the sensual aparatus,
and generally, if we are honest with ourselves, the (sensual gross physical aparatus senses) requires no refinement to experience...
and these outward gross physical actions, have potential to magnetize the yogi to that less transcendent nucleus.   Consider it is not an absolute, but it should be honestly observed, and considered as a yogi.

Not good or bad, it simply "is"...? 
What seems necessary is to understand the potentials when dealing with the physical expressions...   
Do not confuse an expression for the essense, and be honest...
If we feel it is our path to express physically, then this may be fine...
likewise, we need similar compassion of each other, so we not act as the tempting flame (to each others moth senses)?  ha!   

Cheers,
--------- namaste2All

Hi friend(s) you love pizza and the sunrise. Does it love you? Similarly we can love others. But do they love us? This is a good test to see if we even need to think of such things. Of course some people can profess to love us and then not love us.

You also speak of tempting others. As long as we do not miss an important detail here. Have we not expressed love physically towards someone else? It can be a very beautiful experience for those who are in love.... and yes the physical expression can be refined. There are many ways to express ourselves physically. Consider the way that Amma expresses her love to devotees. The fact is we are in physical bodies. We do eat. We must exercise to stay in shape. Some of us can be cold to the body and loose our connection to it. We become over weight. We become unhealthy and we can even become unloving in a physical sense. We can loose our physical appreciation for what our senses enjoy. To feel the breeze. To smell pine needles. To smell someone else's body. To hear their heart beat. To listen to the breath of someone else. These are truly peaceful and soul satisfying experiences.

Love can be transcendental also but it does not mean that we have to negate all our physical enjoyments in the process. We can still be kind to our bodies and the senses and enjoy the world around us without getting caught up in it. It is for each of us to find our own personal balance with nature and those we love and our spiritual life.

Love has infinite ways of expressing itself. When we find our expressions for love is not in our highest interest we adjust and change our expression. When we find that physical expression increases our love and our relationship to others
we give expression to it. These are experiences that should not be denied when they stem from the expression of true love. Some of us have never had the experience of real love and we live in a world of denial because we have punished ourselves and have shrunk from the expression of loving ourselves, loving another and ultimately loving the greatest lover of all: God

Love works on many levels. We find enjoyment watching young people caressing. Yes we know that it may not last. But God expresses thru their love. We watch a friend with a dog or cat and see the expression of love. We see someone help an elderly person and we feel their compassion. We hug someone and kiss them and we feel Gods presence in the love that lies in intimacy. Love is all around us in many physical expressions. Love is part of this physical world otherwise why would God have created it?

Jitendra


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« Reply #12 on: Oct 26, 2011 06:04 pm »

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If this were true in all ways, why is i that some of those who are attached to body consciousness in the sense of having pain and feeling suffering have beautiful spiritual experiences ?

"""the more the consciousness is attached to body....the less spiritual experiences we will have."""

i did not say no or none...i said less....therefore implying that there are spiritual experiences...just not as many as one with less body consciousness has.


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There is a balance that each of us personally must find without becoming cold to the body and cold to others in the process.... at the same time working towards the higher states of consciousness you speak of.

coldness... in the eye of the beholder.  what might seem cold to one person may not be cold to another.  

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It is an interesting phenomena that i have noticed; People who have spiritual experiences often become fanatical and want to change everyone around them. Sometimes in the process they loose the human warmth they once had and others loose there attraction to them in the process.

  
i have found this also...yet i do not see them as 'fanatics'.  i see it as excitement about something good happening to them and want to share this excitement with others.  there is something written about this in the 'science of yoga'....and guruji mentions this phenomena also.

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If in our spiritual experiences we can translate them to others in a way that shows love then our spiritual experiences r constructive in a social sense as well as a individual sense.If we cannot, they r limited at best and at worst can b interpreted as a callous exercise in human relationships and suppression of human warmth.

do we truly think that the masters were never callous towards their 'students'....or seemed insensitive ?  so are students callous towards students too.

my mom called me a few weeks back....she was witness to a 'yogi master' who's name i will not mention....discipline a female student while she was performing yoga in front of a crowd of people and made her cry.  would that not seem callous or insensitive ?  my mom....was dumbfounded by his actions...very upset she was. i told her in response....that the guru disciplines out of concernment towards the student....guru desires success for the student...

the guru did not appear to exude forth 'human warmth' at the time....but in truth,,,,it came from concern.

student to student....callousness can sometimes happen in order to protect oneself...a type of defense.


i am in harmony with u about your points Yoshi. When we expand our consciousness we become less identified to the body. Yet when we love someone and profess love towards them we also have a concern for their spiritual, emotional and physical needs. When we are close to another human being we do not want to appear cold to them. If we care about them we want them to know it. When someone is 'in love' this comes rather naturally. When someone 'falls out of love' it becomes more of an effort. We also can b in denial of our physical nature because of past hurts and separations that make us numb to physical expression. This is what i have found in various psychological disorders. Many psychological problems lhave religious overtones. Many people escape human encounter in a zeal for spiritual experience and in a world they create for themselves to avoid the pain of the human experience.. In the process they become isolated and numb to their own needs and those of others.

Sometimes in their enthusiasm i have had experience with (as an example) born again Christians who try to convert me when i have been in a blissful state meditating. They had no interest in meditation and in fact thought it was evil In this sense i see people who r fanatics try to change others when in their ignorance they actually r numb to the message that God is giving them in the moment.

i think as yogis we begin to realize that it is not our function to discipline others when we are students. This is a duty we give willingly to a Master or guru.

 As far as defense goes i am not sure what kind of defense u r speaking of here. Have u been attacked? .

i believe there is something dynamic happening here between Yoshi Nomaste and  Omkar. This entity is in the experience. If anyone else would like to join in they r welcome also. It is all good and for our highest purpose. Thank You everyone for your friendship and contributions to this thread. We r all trying to raise our consciousness and we r helping one another; without loosing our humanity and sensitivity towards one another in the process.

Jitendra
« Last Edit: Oct 26, 2011 07:25 pm by **steve ~ hydonus** » Report Spam   Logged

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« Reply #13 on: Oct 26, 2011 07:28 pm »

Sometimes in their enthusiasm i have had experience with (as an example) born again Christians who try to convert me when i have been in a blissful state meditating. They had no interest in meditation and in fact thought it was evil In this sense i see people who r fanatics try to change others when in their ignorance they actually r numb to the message that God is giving them in the moment.

Jitendra

hey Jitendra !  Cool

even the born again Christians are entitled to their enthusiasm
are you not enthusiastic about Yogananda and his teachings ?

conversion is one of their duties
they just do it in a more aggressive manner than others

just because one is into meditation
doesn't mean that everyone finds it so enticing or valuable as a spiritual practice

there are probably also Yogananda fantatics too

this is possible in any religion, or spiritual practice
one goes over the edge in their excitement of the moment

Hi squirrel i just do not need to experience their aggression when i am trying to do my own practice and to b told that i am doing the works of the devil besides. By the way there r definitely Yogananda fanatics and i try to stay a way from them too if they criticize me for having other spiritual interests and spiritual ideas that r not in harmony to their own.

Jitendra
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« Reply #14 on: Oct 26, 2011 08:37 pm »

hey brother  J ! Cool

almost missed your reply
snuck it in, with my post  Grin

I agree, no need to be aggressive
 Shocked works of the devil ? !!  Shocked

certainly inconsiderate to interrupt when one is meditating


 
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