CULTS :'(

[brock]

 What "spiritual cult" were you in?

[kingfisher111]

I'd rather not discuss that in particular brock.

[brock]

Well, I don't actually believe in cults. Cults are just life. Most of us are born into one cult or another. Cults are a way of life. They are the rule, not the exception. The fear mongered everyone into this idea of a cult. A cult is just everything. Who isn't in a cult? The United States is a cult. The corporation you work for is a cult. The church down the street from your house is a cult. Your family is a cult. Your band is a cult. School is a cult. Everything is a cult. Your life is a cult. My butthole is a cult. You see? This word cult is bogus. The human mind is the mind. It functions a certain way. There is nothing to be ashamed of. Cults are a structural part of the conditioned mind. They are a part of human psychology. People naturally form in-groups and out-groups in all walks of life. People everywhere hero worship. People everywhere follow things unquestioningly. People believe things just because authority figures say it. People look to others to validate them and verify them. This is part of the mind. In general parlance or the media, the term cult basically means a group that we are afraid of for one reason or another. You may think the reason for being afraid is valid or invalid, but it is immaterial. If we all agree that it's a cult, it's a cult. How cultish.

[Jitendra Hy-do-u-no-us?]

a system of religious veneration and devotion directed toward a particular figure or object.

"the cult of St. Olaf"

a relatively small group of people having religious beliefs or practices regarded by others as strange or sinister.

"a network of Satan-worshiping cults"

synonyms:sect, denomination, group, movement,church, persuasion, body, factionMore

a misplaced or excessive admiration for a particular person or thing.

"a cult of personality surrounding the leaders"

synonyms:obsession with, fixation on, mania for,passion for, idolization of, devotion to,worship of, veneration of More

Well, I don't actually believe in cults. Cults are just life. Most of us are born into one cult or another. Cults are a way of life. They are the rule, not the exception. The fear mongered everyone into this idea of a cult. A cult is just everything. Who isn't in a cult? The United States is a cult. The corporation you work for is a cult. The church down the street from your house is a cult. Your family is a cult. Your band is a cult. School is a cult. Everything is a cult. Your life is a cult. My butthole is a cult. You see? This word cult is bogus. The human mind is the mind. It functions a certain way. There is nothing to be ashamed of. Cults are a structural part of the conditioned mind. They are a part of human psychology. People naturally form in-groups and out-groups in all walks of life. People everywhere hero worship. People everywhere follow things unquestioningly. People believe things just because authority figures say it. People look to others to validate them and verify them. This is part of the mind. In general parlance or the media, the term cult basically means a group that we are afraid of for one reason or another. You may think the reason for being afraid is valid or invalid, but it is immaterial. If we all agree that it's a cult, it's a cult. How cultish.

I had to get a definition of this word to be able to reply. I believe all of us have a cult of worship for something or someone. I suppose we are all trying to elevate our sense of worship to something higher and more worthwhile. So our definition become more meaningful and less shallow. I remember seeing people at the mausoleum when i went to see Paramahansa Yogananda's crypt. They were mostly there because Micheal Jackson was buried there also. From a Buddhist prospective  it would be easy to say that I was making a cult of Yogananda and perhaps I was. But being there at the crypt seemed to help me and my meditations. I believe I recieved a miracle there. I think we learn thru our hero worship and our veneration for certain people as well. I have learned that it is important to let many of these strong attractions go. It is because of theses attachments that have caused much suffering.

The most important figure to follow is our true self but we often get a picture of what this is through our contacts with others we admire and venerate.

[brock]

See, cult is just a synonym for religion or spiritual path. It is a useless word because it does not really say anything. It is like saying my old religion was a butthole. You might as well say that as say it is a cult. As long as the mind seeks outward, it will have to get involved with cults. When the mind goes inward, that is the true cult.

[Jitendra Hy-do-u-no-us?]

See, cult is just a synonym for religion or spiritual path. It is a useless word because it does not really say anything. It is like saying my old religion was a butthole. You might as well say that as say it is a cult. As long as the mind seeks outward, it will have to get involved with cults. When the mind goes inward, that is the true cult.

i agree with you brock.. when the mind goes inward. The big question that follows though is... how does the mind go inward? How and who has the ability to help us do this? Is it something that can be done entirely on our own? Or is it something that requires the help of others as most things do.

I believe that one of the big lessons we are learning on the spiritual path is to let go of our venerations. To let go of the worship we give for certain people and experiences. Perhaps all religions are cults. Yet my experience is that we begin to associate more with those who are closer and closer to the truth and leave more and more of the old worn out people from the past behind. Somethings and people withstand the test of time better then others. There have been times in our lives when what was best for us and what represented the truth the most we have rejected. Some friends and paths/religions have more to offer and are of a higher truth.

[brock]

I feel that it is all grace. Because the guru doesn't really work externally. If the guru was external, then someone could answer the question. It's very much a lot like when people ask, "How do I know if i'm in love?" The answer is that if you have to ask you aren't in love yet. But you can work with what you have. How can we even recognize a person who is enlightened if we aren't enlightened? We can't. But since the guru is within, he guides us from within. He picks out the right person at the right time for our stage of development (our karma and circumstances). So the Guru says, "Hey! I can see myself here!" Because the outer person is reflecting the inner guru. That's how it works. It's within, and outer things, people, or symbols reflect what is inside. Some mirrors are clearer than others. There is no set of criterions you can go down 1 through 10 and check off and say, "Well, it looks like he is the guru." It doesn't seem work like that. If you are thinking you have to get a teacher, if you are in love you might have a guru.

About veneration:

It seems to me that veneration can have it's relative good aspects. But ultimately, veneration done as a way of seeking gains or rewards is probably a lower form of it. The higher form would be veneration out of love. That kind of veneration is it's own reward, isn't it? The other kind of veneration is a kind of "wheeling and dealing".


You also reminded me of a zen quote that is like, "If you meet the buddha along the path, slay him immediately." This might tie into this. Although, as long as you love someone that might be a hard teaching. There was a story about Ramakrishna and somebody came to him a told him he had to slay Kali. He went and asked her if it was okay. I wouldn't throw away the devotion just yet though.

[kingfisher111]

Cults are a structural part of the conditioned mind. They are a part of human psychology. People naturally form in-groups and out-groups in all walks of life. People everywhere hero worship. People everywhere follow things unquestioningly. People believe things just because authority figures say it. People look to others to validate them and verify them. This is part of the mind. In general parlance or the media, the term cult basically means a group that we are afraid of for one reason or another. You may think the reason for being afraid is valid or invalid, but it is immaterial. If we all agree that it's a cult, it's a cult. How cultish.

Well put brock!

[kingfisher111]

In response to your points Brock, I totally agree with you.

Cult is defined as a spiritual sect or group.

And modern society, the news, etc. has redefined it as a small group which people are fearful of in someway, and they basically use this word "cult" dismissively and don't analyze more deeply beyond it. 


My definition of "cult" in how I meant it is just any group which is as you call an "in-group" which reinforces the value of being a member and the disgrace or pitiable state of being a "non-member'.  This is what I would call, derogatively, "cult like thinking."

I think a healthy group or family does not speak poorly of non-members.  There are many families which are very open hearted and invite people to join them for dinner and gatherings, and there are others who spend their entire lives never sharing dinner or events with a single person outside of their religion, race, political party, nationality, etc.

A "cult", by how I meant it, keeps Humans separate.  It discourages greater understanding between people who don't have each others' group in common, or a mutual friend already, etc.


Conversely, I think these closed off groups have a "motherly" element of protectiveness.  So, someone deeply rooted inside a group or system which discourages them from communicating with others outside of it or discourages critical analysis in general, in a way, is actually protecting it's members from potential harm.  However, this group will never acknowledge the uncertainty of Life in general, and the fact that it may also have certain dangers, especially when followed blindly/unquestioningly.


To Humanity as a whole, at this time in History more than ever, I think, it is important for us to communicate with those who we disagree with, to understand their perspective and to develop more compassion between everyone, ESPECIALLY those we don't agree with!

Any group which encourages this, I am very grateful for!

[guest88]

i'm in the spiritual portal cult brock