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The Bible and Christian Dogmatism


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mccoy
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« Reply #45 on: Apr 07, 2015 10:04 pm »

I have met a few mean and cruel people in my life. Now a mean and cruel God. Sorry I am not going for it. I think Amma said it best when asked if the Bible was true: "Some of it." ~ Amma

Steve, maybe a mean and cruel period in history required a mean and cruel God. No wonder about it.

Sometimes Steve, I do not understand all this complaint about the bible. It appears so obvious to me that so many things are absolutely ridiculos to read in a supposedly religious book. So much so that they've been left there for historical reasons only.

Do you think that some people would be tempted to follow the example of Elijah, who cut the troath to over 300 mean priests and in doing so was praised by angels? And was God really cruel in possessing Elijah's body and cutting all those troaths (this is one possible reasonable explanation)? What if survival of the Whole Jew populace was due to that cut-troath festival?  what if those 300 priests were extremely cruel and possessed by Satan? That society was something pretty easy to manipulate by today's standards.
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« Reply #46 on: Apr 09, 2015 08:24 pm »

I have met a few mean and cruel people in my life. Now a mean and cruel God. Sorry I am not going for it. I think Amma said it best when asked if the Bible was true: "Some of it." ~ Amma

Steve, maybe a mean and cruel period in history required a mean and cruel God. No wonder about it.

Sometimes Steve, I do not understand all this complaint about the bible. It appears so obvious to me that so many things are absolutely ridiculos to read in a supposedly religious book. So much so that they've been left there for historical reasons only.

Do you think that some people would be tempted to follow the example of Elijah, who cut the troath to over 300 mean priests and in doing so was praised by angels? And was God really cruel in possessing Elijah's body and cutting all those troaths (this is one possible reasonable explanation)? What if survival of the Whole Jew populace was due to that cut-troath festival?  what if those 300 priests were extremely cruel and possessed by Satan? That society was something pretty easy to manipulate by today's standards.


The 'compliant' as u put it is quite legitimate seeing as to the fact that time and time again groups of people have used what has been said in this book to torture and persecute others and in m
our time to harass those who do not believe. This has been done because of 'facts' stated in the Bible which are indeed often untrue and lies. In this sense this book cannot be considered a spiritual guide since it is used by fundamentalists to justify a mean God.
How can there be justification for cruelty?

When u find cruelty acted out by God in this book it is time to replace it or at least recognize it's spiritual poverty and not try to justify it by saying God could b cruel in one period of time an loving at another time. No wonder there is such mental illness and unkindness in our culture today.... when u follow such a teaching.
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« Reply #47 on: Apr 09, 2015 08:47 pm »

Well then I might say the fault is the pastors' who are commenting the bible, not necessarily the bible itself.

Also, an abridgement leaving only the new testament would be a drastic but satisfactory possibility.

Can you find anything which may be construed to encourage violence and cruelty in the new testament (Gospel, acts of the apostles, letters of the disciples, Apocalypse?
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« Reply #48 on: Apr 09, 2015 11:44 pm »

Well then I might say the fault is the pastors' who are commenting the bible, not necessarily the bible itself.

Also, an abridgement leaving only the new testament would be a drastic but satisfactory possibility.

Can you find anything which may be construed to encourage violence and cruelty in the new testament (Gospel, acts of the apostles, letters of the disciples, Apocalypse?

i apologize for not being able to answer mccoy.... at least not rite now. Something happened to me today that was instigated by your post and our communications. It was a very wonderful experience. I will get back to this thread...
but sometimes words seem meaningless and not able to adequately describe what we experience internally.
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« Reply #49 on: Apr 10, 2015 08:06 pm »

Well then I might say the fault is the pastors' who are commenting the bible, not necessarily the bible itself.

Also, an abridgement leaving only the new testament would be a drastic but satisfactory possibility.

Can you find anything which may be construed to encourage violence and cruelty in the new testament (Gospel, acts of the apostles, letters of the disciples, Apocalypse?
http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/cruelty/nt_list.html

Even the New Testament-in many ways-is a continuation of hell fire, and brimstone gnashing of teeth and those who will go to hell. It is not Jesus. It is the way he is portrayed. How can this be taught in a Sunday School class? How is the psychology of fear going to help a new generation?

When i saw Amma speak; She never spoke this way. Her talks portrayed a God of Love... not a God of damnation and hell and fire. I am not saying I agree with everything in this link but let us look at few quotes from the New Testament as well. The language is used in a cruel way and the metaphors are also often menacing. My experience of Jesus is much different!
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« Reply #50 on: Apr 10, 2015 09:22 pm »

Fortunately for us Abraham Lincoln - who Paramahansa Yogananda called a great yogi in a past life - did not follow the advice of the Bible. Imagine how many wars and tens of thousands of deaths were caused by the Bibles support of slavery... not to mention the total disregard for certain races and people.



New Testament Verses:

    Ephesians 6:5-9 (NRSV)

    Slaves, obey your earthly masters with fear and trembling, in singleness of heart, as you obey Christ; not only while being watched, and in order to please them, but as slaves of Christ, doing the will of God from the heart. Render service with enthusiasm, as to the Lord and not to men and women, knowing that whatever good we do, we will receive the same again from the Lord, whether we are slaves or free. And, masters, do the same to them. Stop threatening them, for you know that both of you have the same Master in heaven, and with him there is no partiality.

Christian slaves treat your masters well. Christian slave masters are directly addressed, and told to treat their slaves well.

    Colossians 3:22-25 (NRSV)

    Slaves, obey your earthly masters in everything, not only while being watched and in order to please them, but wholeheartedly, fearing the Lord. Whatever your task, put yourselves into it, as done for the Lord and not for your masters, since you know that from the Lord you will receive the inheritance as your reward; you serve the Lord Christ. For the wrongdoer will be paid back for whatever wrong has been done, and there is no partiality.

Christian slaves, wholeheartedly obey your masters in everything. If they treat you badly, know that they will get punishment in the next life.

    1 Timothy 6:1-5 (NRSV)

    Let all who are under the yoke of slavery regard their masters as worthy of all honor, so that the name of God and the teaching may not be blasphemed. Those who have believing masters must not be disrespectful to them on the ground that they are members of the church; rather they must serve them all the more, since those who benefit by their service are believers and beloved. Teach and urge these duties. Whoever teaches otherwise and does not agree with the sound words of our Lord Jesus Christ and the teaching that is in accordance with godliness, is conceited, understanding nothing, and has a morbid craving for controversy and for disputes about words. From these come envy, dissension, slander, base suspicions, and wrangling among those who are depraved in mind and bereft of the truth, imagining that godliness is a means of gain.

Christian slaves, obey your masters well and obey your Christian masters especially well. Anyone who teaches otherwise is going against the words of Jesus, and has a morbid craving for disputes about words.

    Titus 2:9-10,15 (NRSV)

    Tell slaves to be submissive to their masters and to give satisfaction in every respect; they are not to talk back, not to pilfer, but to show complete and perfect fidelity, so that in everything they may be an ornament to the doctrine of God our Savior. Declare these things; exhort and reprove with all authority. Let no one look down on you.
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« Reply #51 on: Apr 10, 2015 09:32 pm »

Jesus says that divorce is permissible when the wife is guilty of fornication. But what if the husband is unfaithful? Jesus doesn't seem to care about that. 5:32, 19:h

http://madmikesamerica.com/2011/06/bible-women-should-suffer-in-silence/

11: Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection.
    12: But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.
    14: And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression.
    15: Notwithstanding she shall be saved in childbearing, if they continue in faith and charity and holiness with sobriety.


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« Reply #52 on: Apr 10, 2015 10:13 pm »

This is taken from the same skeptics site you linked, it is clearly something targeted to guys:

 Matthew:
Quote
5:27 Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not commit adultery: 
5:28 But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.
 
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« Reply #53 on: Apr 10, 2015 10:24 pm »

Re Paul the apostle: he was evidently pretty much influenced by ortodox old testament teachings.

If we stick to my original observation, those letters you cited, even though not a sign of massive social enlightenment, do not incite to cruelty or violence.

We should know also the context. Maybe there had been bloody riots within slaves and Paul was trying to avoid violence.
Also, slavery in those times was an accepted part of life.
Also, the condition of women was to be very subdued.

Since the main of all Jesus disciples was a woman, Mary Magdalene, to whom Jesus manifested after resurrection before the Others, we should be wary in jumping to conclusions. The truth is that Jesus highly esteemed Magdalene, a woman. More than most male disciples. Whatever else the skeptics want to say, they are forgetting this basic fact.

If anything but the gospels is disturbing in the new testament it may be easily removed. The gospels are the only fundamental part.
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« Reply #54 on: Apr 11, 2015 01:08 am »

Re Paul the apostle: he was evidently pretty much influenced by ortodox old testament teachings.

If we stick to my original observation, those letters you cited, even though not a sign of massive social enlightenment, do not incite to cruelty or violence.

We should know also the context. Maybe there had been bloody riots within slaves and Paul was trying to avoid violence.
Also, slavery in those times was an accepted part of life.
Also, the condition of women was to be very subdued.

Since the main of all Jesus disciples was a woman, Mary Magdalene, to whom Jesus manifested after resurrection before the Others, we should be wary in jumping to conclusions. The truth is that Jesus highly esteemed Magdalene, a woman. More than most male disciples. Whatever else the skeptics want to say, they are forgetting this basic fact.

If anything but the gospels is disturbing in the new testament it may be easily removed. The gospels are the only fundamental part.

Since we appear to have similar views Mccoy perhaps we should start a new topic on Jesus. This-the man that changed everything... everything!
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« Reply #55 on: Apr 11, 2015 11:43 am »

Since we appear to have similar views Mccoy perhaps we should start a new topic on Jesus. This-the man that changed everything... everything!

Let's do that, he's our param-param-param-param guru after all (hope the # of params are all right)
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« Reply #56 on: Apr 11, 2015 06:20 pm »

Since we appear to have similar views Mccoy perhaps we should start a new topic on Jesus. This-the man that changed everything... everything!

Let's do that, he's our param-param-param-param guru after all (hope the # of params are all right)

I think that pretty much covers it.... no one's going to call u on it.  Tongue
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