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Population Explosion


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mccoy
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« Reply #60 on: May 02, 2016 01:25 pm »

Scientifically speaking, if the population were optimally distributed and resources and wastes optimized, I believe the planet might accomodate more people, maybe twice as the present number.

So far though we have proved that optimization is impossible. A critical aspect which occurred to me is the energy needs. Presently we would need either more carbon based power plants, or more nuclear power plants. The former would increase the greenhouse effect and global warming, the latter would pose a very serious hazard of radioactive pollution.
Of course more resources would be needed to fuel those plants.

As we discussed, less developed countries exhibit greater population growth. The excess population tends to migrate sometimes to the more developed countries (see Africans migrating to Europe).

Steve's concerns should be directed mainly to Africa, India, China. Maybe South America as well. Large families are presently very rare in tehe western world. My mother's family was made up of 9 brothers and sisters. My family is a one-son family. My sister has one girl. My brother has no family. The improvement has been very significant. Here. What about Africa and India?
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« Reply #61 on: May 02, 2016 04:21 pm »

While it is helpful that some families r taking action on population increase as mccoy mentioned...It is also easy to put the blame on other countries but in reality we should look at the over all population increase in the world which is affecting everyone and the global environment. Let us do our part!

Population growth
In biology, population growth is the increase in the number of individuals in a population. Global human population growth amounts to around 75 million annually, or 1.1% per year. The global population has grown from 1 billion in 1800 to 7 billion in 2012. It is expected to keep growing, where estimates have put the total population at 8.4 billion by mid-2030, and 9.6 billion by mid-2050.
en.wikipedia.org · Text under CC-BY-SA license

When we look at this projection and the increase in population exponentially since recorded history tallies... every nation including the U.S. and Italy are responsible. It does not take large families-- as mccoy mentioned-- to increase population. A family having only two children can have those two children having two more children a piece. This means that they have doubled the population in only one small family. If those four children have two children a piece we have increased the population 4X in one life time. Now if we have great grand children the we may increase the population 8X in one life time! Let us look at the responsibility of the United States for saturating the world with more people and the projections for a major western country (mccoy mentioned that my concerns should be mainly directed at other nations).... see link below:

https://www.google.com/search?q=united+states+population+growth&rlz=1C1CHWA_enUS602US602&espv=2&biw=1024&bih=534&tbm=isch&imgil=ie7G1l3WQ9JQPM%253A%253BWGpU7bhxyu5_GM%253Bhttp%25253A%25252F%25252Ftheglitteringeye.com%25252Fthe-growth-in-real-u-s-per-capita-gdp%25252F&source=iu&pf=m&fir=ie7G1l3WQ9JQPM%253A%252CWGpU7bhxyu5_GM%252C_&usg=__yHf827oPh9PjccY5W5WNdmLvl-g%3D&ved=0ahUKEwiUnYbFvLvMAhVD9x4KHXWRAogQyjcIWA&ei=5VInV9SWC8Pue_WiisAI#imgrc=ie7G1l3WQ9JQPM%3A

If u would like we can further look at the SIZE of Italy and the population increase over the centuries in proportion to the small size of that country. Italy is a much smaller country then California yet it has almost 20 million more people then California and California is very, very crowded! That is the major reason i moved from the area.
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« Reply #62 on: May 02, 2016 08:40 pm »

If you wipe out enough people to make the population count permissible (whatever that number is), you'll still end up with too many people that could care less and will still create problems for the planet.

BTW, what is the solution?
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« Reply #63 on: May 02, 2016 08:44 pm »

Did I make a boo boo?
only u can say

That's code for yes you did  Shocked
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Steve Hydonus
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« Reply #64 on: May 02, 2016 10:05 pm »

Did I make a boo boo?
only u can say

That's code for yes you did  Shocked

It's O.K. SI u have cleared yourself. i'd hate to think how many blunders i have made in communication!
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« Reply #65 on: May 02, 2016 10:08 pm »

If you wipe out enough people to make the population count permissible (whatever that number is), you'll still end up with too many people that could care less and will still create problems for the planet.

BTW, what is the solution?

Oh yes! i agree with that! But at least the problem of over population would be solved--- one less problem!
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« Reply #66 on: May 03, 2016 11:59 pm »

Steve, as far as I understand, in Italy and in the USA, positive growth is mantained by immigration. Or numerous immigrants' families. That seems to be official in Italy, maybe in the US as well.

This means that the population surplus is flowing from Africa, or Mexico, into Italy, or USA.

Italy is crowded because it's small but California is far larger, it's not crowded, although its urban areas most assuredly are.

Geometric growth maybe is no more happening in western countries. Let's consider my extended family. 8 people, 3 couples of parents, two singles with no sons . From these 8 people, only 3 children were born. Of these 3 children, probably only 2 will perhaps get married and bear descentants. In the meanwhile, elders will have died. The trend is negative. My situation may not be representative of the whole nation but it makes up a slice of reality.
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« Reply #67 on: May 04, 2016 01:37 pm »

Steve, as far as I understand, in Italy and in the USA, positive growth is mantained by immigration. Or numerous immigrants' families. That seems to be official in Italy, maybe in the US as well.

This means that the population surplus is flowing from Africa, or Mexico, into Italy, or USA.

Italy is crowded because it's small but California is far larger, it's not crowded, although its urban areas most assuredly are.

Geometric growth maybe is no more happening in western countries. Let's consider my extended family. 8 people, 3 couples of parents, two singles with no sons . From these 8 people, only 3 children were born. Of these 3 children, probably only 2 will perhaps get married and bear descentants. In the meanwhile, elders will have died. The trend is negative. My situation may not be representative of the whole nation but it makes up a slice of reality.

For every narrative u present McCoy I have another one like this: https://www.yahoo.com/celebrity/tagged/babies

We should not award such people but actually banish them. It just shows how we have totally misplaced social values.
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« Reply #68 on: May 05, 2016 02:14 pm »

Steve,
Presently there are more deaths than births in Italy (2013 data) deaths=blu line in the graph



Future projections from the UN  foresee a slight increase of population (probably related to immigration), then a steady decrease, down to teh 58 millions of 2056 (I agree such projections may be totally inaccurate)

The total world population though is increasing, as the following plot shows. So we should examine the trends in the single nations. We may do that to see which states are to be blamed for teh present increase of the actual population. Pls not that the exponent of the curve is decreasing, that its slope is lower in more recent years, that means the increase in population is slowing down significantly, although it has not stopped.

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Steve Hydonus
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« Reply #69 on: May 05, 2016 04:11 pm »

Italy's contribution to increased population.

As we can see from the charts -- see attachments -- Italy has had an increase of over 10 million people in the last 10 years. Italy ranks 23rd in the population of all nations of the world. This is for an area smaller then California and roughly the size of New Mexico. New Mexico's population is about 2 million. Italy's is about 60 million.

From 1500 B.C. till 2016 the increase of population in Italy has been from 15 million to 60 million. Small  changes in the last few years has left no meaningful dent in the suffocation of people and has only exasperated the situation; The population density in Italy is 203 per Km2 (527 people per square mile). Would u want to live in these crowded conditions? Even though its huge population growth has been slightly lower--- it still has increased even over the last few years. http://www.worldometers.info/world-population/italy-population/  Since last year alone thousands of more people have increased population to an overcrowded sitatuation in this small country.

The current population of Italy is 59,800,495 as of Thursday, May 5, 2016, based on the latest United Nations estimates.
Italy population is equivalent to 0.81% of the total world population.
Italy ranks number 23 in the list of countries by population.
The population density in Italy is 203 per Km2 (527 people per mi2).
The total land area is 294,152 Km2 (113,572 sq. miles)
70.5 % of the population is urban (42,306,608 people in 2016)
The median age in Italy is 46.3 years


In this link below we can see the small size of Italy in relation to the U.S. Yet despite its small size its population is about one fifth the population of the whole U.S. Compare the size of Italy to the U.S. (use satellite view to include Alaska and Hawaii.) see link below:

http://www.ifitweremyhome.com/compare/US/IT



See population growth charts of Italy below:

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« Reply #70 on: May 06, 2016 04:25 am »

OSHO's (Bhagwan Shree Rajneesh) commune was, I think, one of the first instances of a population control program that was actually carried out. He, like you, warned about the danger of over-popualation.

Time investment for video: 12 minutes



I surmise that you probably aren't a fan of OSHO. But I thought I'd share this with you any way.





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« Reply #71 on: May 06, 2016 04:37 am »

I think that Mccoy is right in saying the population explosion is much less of a problem in economically developed countries than in third-world areas. And the spread of Christianity, you won't be surprised to know, has not helped here. Because they were telling these people that it was sinful to use birth-control.
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« Reply #72 on: May 06, 2016 04:41 am »

Of course, it also goes without saying that preaching to the choir here on this forum is doing absolutely nothing to deter the problem either. Although it can be interesting to discuss it's not going to change things much.
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Steve Hydonus
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« Reply #73 on: May 06, 2016 06:22 am »

OSHO's (Bhagwan Shree Rajneesh) commune was, I think, one of the first instances of a population control program that was actually carried out. He, like you, warned about the danger of over-popualation.

Time investment for video: 12 minutes



I surmise that you probably aren't a fan of OSHO. But I thought I'd share this with you any way.


Actually there is much more then birth control that is explained by OSHO. It amounts to the subjugation of women into motherhood when she may have many other talents that r just as important. How can she be a politician or prophet when she is expected to b a mother year after year. Women will never b equal to men if they r forced into motherhood when the true fact is that we do not need motherhood from women now. We need the true talents that women have equal to men. This is her time especially in a country like the United States. She is equal to man so why shouldn't she claim her rite? Birth control is needed and i think OSHO has some very good points here. It would b helpful it the Catholic Church would recognize this instead of advising there constituents to multiply like rabbits rather then taking the necessary precautions to live with sanity. To ignore sexuality and somehow think that people r going to live like monks and nuns is a fantasy that will only cause more misery for others here on earth. We see what damage this has done to countries south of the border who r mainly Catholic. It is only one more reminder of how religion can b so far from the truth and continues to make this earth a hell hole to live in.

And the spread of Christianity, you won't be surprised to know, has not helped...... Because they were telling these people that it was sinful to use birth-control.

Of course, it also goes without saying that preaching to the choir here on this forum is doing absolutely nothing to deter the problem either. Although it can be interesting to discuss it's not going to change things much.

i do not believe that for one moment! There r 144 people on this forum at this moment. These people r reading these captions and ideas r very strong at the grass root level. We can influence others by changing ourselves. It starts with us and then what we ARE changes everything around us. Our prayers, our ideas and our state of consciousness does more to change the world then people who have no conception of meditation and some of the things we r discussing here though they may reach millions of people. Why? Because consciousness and awareness is a vibration that awakens our planet. It seems that OSHO recognized that. What does he have to gain from controlling the population of his small group of followers? He too recognizes that truth... which is.... that truth-- however small it may be-- must start with one person: Ourselves.

Good video Brock. Good contribution!
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« Reply #74 on: May 06, 2016 07:34 am »

Thanks, Steve. You've made some good points too, of course. It is hard to be an apologist for religion at this point because it has proved absolutely unable to help with the most important issues facing the [post]modern world. It doesn't even seem to help much with the unimportant ones these days. It seems totally out of touch with the living present. Instead it can apparently only look back, nostalgically, on the past. It really has to be said...it has become all but irrelevant. The philosopher Nietzsche was no fool when he declared "God is dead". He was saying that religion had ceased to be the center of our lives and had become only a small fractional part. He was correct. Religion is a once-a-week quirk now, on the periphery rather than at the center of our cultural universe. It is now a bit like having a quirky hobby rather than being the foundation of our entire lives. That is a condition where "god is dead, and we have killed him".

Perhaps the worst thing that religion has done is to romanticize poverty and sentimentalize human suffering. To paint it as some kind of quaint situation that makes western people feel better about not being able to afford the latest iPhone. The rich kids with their "OM" t-shirts ask the poor kids for money to give to the poor people in other countries as a U2 song plays in the background. As far as I can tell, only rich kids got to go to India and meet all the gurus back in the 70's. Only rich kids can afford to go to India now on a spiritual journey. Grinding poverty is not something romantic. It is inhuman.   
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