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Vitamin B 12


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Steve Hydonus
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« on: Apr 18, 2015 11:07 am »

Hi Steve,
We're shining the same light but from different galaxies.


The light from your galaxy shined on a Naked fruit juice drink i drank today. It had 190% of minimum daily allowance of vitamin B12.  A couple days ago i drank some odwalla blueberry protein drinks that had 180% of daily value if B 12... just in case i keel over or loose my mind. Funny what affect the light has done to various galaxies.

http://www.healthaliciousness.com/articles/Top-5-Natural-Vegetarian-sources-Vitamin-B12.php
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« Reply #1 on: Apr 18, 2015 03:15 pm »

The healtalicious site is good.
Browsing the vegan alternative for B12 though, I found that they suggest the use of fortified products, that is, vegan products where B12 has been artificially added.

I wonder if this is the right concept. Unless of course there are specific reasons to practice a vegan diet, I believe it's better to eat the natural B12 found in yogurt or fresh dairy products, for example.

Also, I wonder how China, and South east Asia are so overpopulated when the staple diet is vegan (soy beans and rice). Most probably the FDA daily ratio is overestimated (or they apply a substantial safety factor).
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« Reply #2 on: Apr 20, 2015 05:26 am »

The healtalicious site is good.
Browsing the vegan alternative for B12 though, I found that they suggest the use of fortified products, that is, vegan products where B12 has been artificially added.

I wonder if this is the right concept. Unless of course there are specific reasons to practice a vegan diet, I believe it's better to eat the natural B12 found in yogurt or fresh dairy products, for example.

Also, I wonder how China, and South east Asia are so overpopulated when the staple diet is vegan (soy beans and rice). Most probably the FDA daily ratio is overestimated (or they apply a substantial safety factor).

i remember Paramahansa Yogananda saying that St. Anthony did not live on vitamins. Yet as we know he lived on bread and water for a good portion of his life. i believe there was a reason for the Master saying that the food of the future will be cosmic energy. Yet most of us are not there yet so we try to take a balanced view while recognizing the advice of material minded people (and our own material thoughts.) is often based on short sightedness. i remember years ago people trying to convince me that there were a couple of amino acids that are missing from a vegetarian diet and before that the USDA tried try to tell us that  meat and potatoes with vegetables were at the top of the eating priorities. Now we know this to be madness. While the United States has always favored a meat diet-think of how big business depends on this death industry- in distinct contradiction to the health of other nations we still can learn from others.
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« Reply #3 on: Apr 20, 2015 11:38 pm »

I've been told in some parts of America they have breakfast with meat and scrambled eggs.
But that's pure madness. That's an excess of proteins which in most people will inexorably poison the system.

I've seen how the mental faculties of my father, with his meat-based diet, plunged after 50.

Anyway, the high heart-stroke mortality in America and other western countries speaks by itself.
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« Reply #4 on: Apr 21, 2015 01:32 am »

I've been told in some parts of America they have breakfast with meat and scrambled eggs.
But that's pure madness. That's an excess of proteins which in most people will inexorably poison the system.

I've seen how the mental faculties of my father, with his meat-based diet, plunged after 50.

Anyway, the high heart-stroke mortality in America and other western countries speaks by itself.

Some parts? It's pure madness in this country. No wonder we are so impetuous and agressive!
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« Reply #5 on: May 01, 2015 12:40 am »

Some American people (from Texas I reckon) also tried to convince me that T-bone steaks are a vegetarian food, since the cattle often eats the best organic pasture grass available. I found that a fascinating line of thought. Are all Texans like that?

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« Reply #6 on: May 01, 2015 03:33 am »



MCCOY@!!!! i love your texans friends comment.... being from tx i'm going to say YES, every form of life from texas is exactly like that  Smiley

kehehehehe ODDDDANGGG!!!!  Smiley Cheesy Grin Cheesy Smiley
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peace ~ <3
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« Reply #7 on: May 01, 2015 02:20 pm »

Eric, it may sound strange but when I was a Young boy the most popular comic book in Italy was 'Tex Willer', a Texan ranger who married a Navajo Squaw. He was also called 'Eagle of the night' , honorary chief of the Navajo tribes and went around effectively killing bad guys with his squad, he, his son Kit, his elder Kit carson and a Navajo warrior called Tiger Jack. Most Italian boys grew up knowing about American Indians, Texas and its lore by this comics hero. I think it's still a pretty popular comic book over here. I don't remember about his diet though.



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« Reply #8 on: May 02, 2015 09:08 pm »

Back to B12 daily  minima required, I've just looked up some of the most populare sites but, according to them, even a dvegetarian iet with cheese and eggs can be poor of B12 vitamins. I'll make a calculation, then I'll make more detailed research, I keep having the impression that the recommended daily intake carries a hefty safety value, it may be the 90th or 95th percentile of the statistical sample.
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« Reply #9 on: May 02, 2015 10:09 pm »

Vegan associations strongly suggest that vegans use fortified foods or supplements. This means only one thing: that a vegan diet is not naturally suitable to human beings. Personally I'm not in favour of vegan diets, unless there is some moral principle or whatsoever else rationale behind it. I tried it to starve sexual urge and it worked very well, but I lost weight.

http://www.veganhealth.org/articles/everyvegan

Quote
To be truly healthful, a diet must be best not just for individuals in isolation but must allow all six billion people to thrive and achieve a sustainable coexistence with the many other species that form the “living earth.” From this standpoint the natural adaptation for most (possibly all) humans in the modern world is a vegan diet. There is nothing natural about the abomination of modern factory farming and its attempt to reduce living, feeling beings to machines. In choosing to use fortified foods or B12 supplements, vegans are taking their B12 from the same source as every other animal on the planet – micro-organisms – without causing suffering to any sentient being or causing environmental damage.

Vegans using adequate amounts of fortified foods or B12 supplements are much less likely to suffer from B12 deficiency than the typical meat eater. The Institute of Medicine, in setting the US recommended intakes for B12 makes this very clear. “Because 10 to 30 percent of older people may be unable to absorb naturally occurring vitamin B12, it is advisable for those older than 50 years to meet their RDA mainly by consuming foods fortified with vitamin B12 or a vitamin B12-containing supplement.” Vegans should take this advice about 50 years younger, to the benefit of both themselves and the animals. B12 need never be a problem for well-informed vegans.

Good information supports vegan health, pass it around.
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« Reply #10 on: May 02, 2015 10:38 pm »

This is a very balanced scientifical review from the American Dietary Association. Lots of references from technical literature I strongly reccomend its reading. If a physician says vegetarian diets are not advised, he or she should be referenced to the ADA review. It is stressed that the vegetarians, especially so the vegans, should be made aware of the potential issues deriving from their diet, providing adequate solutions. In the case of the B12 vitamins, the only advised solution for vegans is supplements or fortified foods, whereas in lacto-ovo-vegetarians the only issue is if an adequate amount of foods containing B12 is consumed.

http://www.vrg.org/nutrition/2009_ADA_position_paper.pdf

Quote
It is the position of the American Dietetic
Association that appropriately
planned vegetarian diets, including
total vegetarian or vegan diets, are
healthful, nutritionally adequate, and
may provide health benefits in the prevention
and treatment of certain diseases.
Well-planned vegetarian diets
are appropriate for individuals during
all stages of the lifecycle, including
pregnancy, lactation, infancy, childhood,
and adolescence, and for athletes.
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« Reply #11 on: May 02, 2015 10:40 pm »

This is the ADA position on B12; again, it's pretty much balanced and matter-of-fact-

Quote
Vitamin B-12
The vitamin B-12 status of some vegetarians
is less than adequate due to not regularly consuming reliable
sources of vitamin B-12 (12,46,47).
Lacto-ovo-vegetarians can obtain adequate
vitamin B-12 from dairy foods,
eggs, or other reliable vitamin B-12
sources (fortified foods and supplements),
if regularly consumed. For
vegans, vitamin B-12 must be obtained
from regular use of vitamin
B-12-fortified foods, such as fortified
soy and rice beverages, some breakfast
cereals and meat analogs, or Red
Star Vegetarian Support Formula nutritional
yeast; otherwise a daily vitamin
B-12 supplement is needed. No
unfortified plant food contains any
significant amount of active vitamin
B-12. Fermented soy products cannot
be considered a reliable source of active
B-12 (12,46).
Vegetarian diets are typically rich
in folacin, which may mask the hematological
symptoms of vitamin B-12
deficiency, so that vitamin B-12 deficiency
may go undetected until after
neurological signs and symptoms
may be manifest (47). Vitamin B-12
status is best determined by measuring
serum levels of homocysteine,
methylmalonic acid, or holotranscobalamin
II (48).
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« Reply #12 on: May 03, 2015 04:07 pm »

This thread has given me the opportunity to go make some table-searching for B12 amount, thing I had not been doing for years.

This is an extraordinary vitamin anyway, carring cobalt which is needed to build up red globules. 2 micrograms of it (2 millionths of a gram), an incredible tiny amount, are enough for one day. 
I'm going to summarize my findings and conclusions though.

Presently, RDI in the USA for adult males is 2.4 micrograms

This quantity makes up a 97.5 percentile, that is 97.5 % of adult males are all right with that. Excluding those with hulky bodies and those with health problems, that means it is all right for 100% of adult males. That means also that it is an extremely cautious quantity.

If we look at the average daily need (RDI is a cautious reccomended value), we get down to 2.0 presently but even lower, to the 1.4 micrograms average need value of Europe in 1993.

I'll take that as a statistical benchmark, that is 50% of adult males are perfectly all right with 1.4 micrograms of B12 per day.

Let's add that scientific literature ascertained that those who eat less B12 develop mechanisms which allow the body to assimilate more of it, and the other way around. This means that the 1.4 micrograms value might be scaled down even more, but I'm going to keep it.

Milk is among the foods which displays an higher absorption of B12: 65%. In the average, absorption is about 50%. B12 is also heat-sensitive, so the amount contained in egg yolks is drastically reduced if cooked. Also eggs display one of the lowest absorption indexes.

All the above strongly suggests that, for vegetarians, the easiest source of B12 comes from dairy products.

one pint of milk: 2.0 micrograms B12
50 grams of parmesan cheese (1.8 ounce) = 2.1 micrograms B12
150 grams of average cheese = 2.0 micrograms B12
2 50-grams whole chicken eggs (with raw yolk) = 2.4 micrograms B12
2 50-grams whole chicken eggs (hard-boiled) = 1.1 micrograms B12
One pound of yogurt: 1.0 micrograms B12
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« Reply #13 on: May 03, 2015 04:18 pm »

Conclusions:

#1- A diet without eggs and dairy products is seriously dangeorus because it might cause B 12 deficiency.
#2- My personal opinion is that, unless there is a good reason for it (allergy to dairy products and eggs, celibacy, other...) it is far better to take B12 from natural sources (milk, cheese, yougurt, soft boiled eggs) rather than from artificial supplements, which boost the pharmaceutical industry income and the power of the economic olygarchs and cannot ever be like the natural sources.
#3-In some historical contexts populations have lived without sources of B12. Sometimes they might have taken it from bacteria, like those contained in faeces. Sometimes researchers suspect they may have developed bacterial colonies with internal production of B12 at the initial stages of the intestine.
#4-It is probably very dangerous to experiment whether it is possible for us to go along without B12 sources, unless we are willing to have blood or urine analysis monthly to spot deficiencies in B12
#5-The body stocks B12 in the liver, so  actual deficiencies happen only months, sometimes years, after B12 is not introduced into the body. This means that we can go safely for 2-3 months on a very strict vegan diet, without develop deficiencies (providing we had some stock of B12 in the liver).
#6- Even in vegetarians who eat dairy products and eggs, B12 intake may be low if hunger is low, small amounts of food are eaten and there is no conscious effort to select foods rich in B12.

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« Reply #14 on: May 04, 2015 09:18 am »

Conclusions:

#6- Even in vegetarians who eat dairy products and eggs, B12 intake may be low if hunger is low, small amounts of food are eaten and there is no conscious effort to select foods rich in B12.

i am not sure whether i have naturally gravitated to foods with vitamin B12 or not because i seem to like vegetarian foods high in vitamin 12. In addition to the foods i have already mentioned we have what are called 'Morning Star' and similar products here in the U.S. Many of them are loaded with Vitamin B 12.

For instance only one small Vegetarian Sausage patty contains 35% of daily requirements for the vitamin. One chicken patty contains 20%
and one half a cup of Grillers Crumbles is loaded with 60%.

For people not eating any animal products, yeast extract and other fortified/supplemented foods such as breakfast cereals, soya milks, soya/veggie burgers, and vegetable margarines are all good sources.

i also found that the Breakfast Essentials by Carnation is loaded with vitamins including 25% of vitamin B 12 in with one cup of milk.

i believe as human beings learn more about the detrimental results of meat in their diet they will find more and more healthy alternatives. As the human species evolves, spiritually speaking, all types of meat, fish and fowl will be eventually eliminated as a food source. Hopefully, eventually we will have laws that outlaw cruelty and killing animals as we do humans.
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