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Being a Vegetarian

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Jitendra Hy-do-u-no-us?
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« on: May 06, 2015 05:51 am »

Getting your requirements for zinc as vegetarians.

I have been a vegetarian almost all my life accept the very early years. At different times i have taken an interest in zinc. Once i read the very high risks males have for prostrate cancer. I also read that zinc helped as a precaution against cancer. So took zinc tablets for a while. Today I drank a 32 ounce bottle of Bolthouse Farms Chocolate protein plus. I got more zinc then I needed. The drink also satisfied many other requirements including over 8× my need for vitamin B12.

Vegetarians can meet the recommended dietary allowance of 8 milligrams per day for women and 11 milligrams per day for men by eating a variety of beans, grains, dairy products, nuts and seeds. However, the zinc from plant-based foods isn't as well absorbed as that from animal foods, so vegetarians may need to consume up to 50 percent more zinc to meet their needs, according to the Office of Dietary Supplements.
« Last Edit: May 06, 2015 06:02 am by Steve Hydonus » Report Spam   Logged

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« Reply #1 on: May 06, 2015 06:51 am »

I told a friend tonite that i was writing on the forum about various vitamins and minerals that we need to be careful about and make sure we have enough of them.  She told me: "Obsessing again? Has it ever occurred to you that you have been a vegetarian for over 40 years now and you've been in perfectly good health all the time without being concerned about those things?"

Perhaps one of the reasons is that I need less and less food so it seems i should be aware of what that small amount of food is.
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« Reply #2 on: May 07, 2015 12:29 am »

Steve, as I've written in other posts, I also eat little now and am wondering if I take in enough minerals.
I'm not willing to eat more since that would sure make me sick more than  lower amounts than suggested of minerals and vitamins.

There are some factor though which seems to make unlikely a deficiency:

1-Homeostasis: we optimize the absorption of nutrients in such a way to avoid too small and too high quantities.
2-whole grain foods: in spite of fitates, it has been observed that they result in more zinc and iron absorbed
3-Vitamin c, fruit, vegetables: these foods, as it has been observed, improve the absorption of iron, zinc and other nutrient
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« Reply #3 on: May 07, 2015 10:12 pm »

Perhaps one of the reasons is that I need less and less food so it seems i should be aware of what that small amount of food is.

Exactly my same concern

anyway, I think the B12 concern is soon solved in a natural way, as I've written in the thread on B12 (except for vegans, who most probably need supplements).

I'm a little more concerned about iron and zinc, but I'm researching that. The best vegetarian source for iron are probably lentils. I can eat only very modest amounts of them though. Other sources are some nuts and seeds. Bitter chocolate and unsweetend cocoa are good sources for iron, zinc, magnesium and other metals, and almonds are very rich in Mg and walnuts are rich in Zn.

Proteins after a certain age are needed in small amounts, probably one half or one quarter of the FDA RDI, depending on physical activity. I'm going to research that as well.
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« Reply #4 on: May 08, 2015 07:13 pm »

Homeostastis and Zinc: I'm researching some literature on the subject. A reference article, often cited, is Johnson et al., 1993.

http://ajcn.nutrition.org/content/57/4/557.long

This is a very interesting article on the homeostasis of zinc and the treshold below which homeostasis fails and deficiency comes about.

Some concentration units in the article are micro-moles/day, which multiplied by 65.38, the atomic mass of zinc, results in micrograms per day (and this multiplied by 0.001 is milligram/d), the usual unit. OK, I'm reading values are often converted.
The authors start with these data (current RDI = 11 mg/d):

FDA RDI in 1993 = 15 mg/d
'Adequate amount'= 10.3 mg/d
low amount= 4.4 mg/d
pretty low amount= 2.45 mg/d
very low amount=1.4 mg/d

The result is that almost all of the subject started to manifest zinc deficinecy at the pretty low or low tresholds.
Everyone was all right with 4.4 mg/day, which is about less than an half times the current RDI of 11 mg/day.

It must be told that the Zn supplied in teh study was highly available. In such case, conclusions of the rticle is that 3.4 mg /d is an adequate amount.

For us vegetarians it may not be so, although I would tend to believe that 5 mg/d would be in most cases (adult.males-average bodyweight) an adequate quantity.

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« Reply #5 on: May 08, 2015 09:04 pm »

How to achieve the minimum target of 4 mg/d of zinc with vegetarian foods? Soem examples:

-130 grams of walnuts or almonds,
130 grams of lentils, beans
-100 grams of parmesan cheese (certain), cheese in general (uncertain)
-4 cups milk (1 liter)
-40 grams pumpkin & squash seed
-70 grams cashew nuts
-80 grams sunflower seeds
-100 grams palm hearts
-200 grams sprouted soybeans
-55 grams oil roasted peanuts
-220 grams of bread or rice (Whole grain)
-500 grams of spinachs


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« Reply #6 on: May 09, 2015 02:05 pm »

My likely need for zinc may be provided by the following daily amounts of food:


-20 grams pumpkiin seeds (50% daily zinc)
-30 grams walnuts or almonds) (25% daily zinc)
-50 grams Whole meal cereals (25% daily zinc)

They are small amounts, zinc is not a problem even on a vegan diet.
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« Reply #7 on: May 10, 2015 12:51 am »

Iron and homeostasis: a good and very exaustivearticle on the biochemistry of iron:

http://physrev.physiology.org/content/93/4/1721

Quote
Despite fluctuations in the iron content of human diets and occasional blood loss from trauma or child birth, most adult humans maintain plasma iron concentrations in the range of 10–30 μM and iron reserves of ∼0.2–1 g (46). Moreover, iron absorption is increased in mice or humans during periods of iron deficiency, and absorption is decreased by parenteral iron overload (reviewed in Ref. 72). These observations have led to the expectation that one or more systemically acting hormones regulate the major flows of iron and are in turn regulated by iron (72). Surprisingly, the hormone and its function in iron homeostasis were only discovered during the last decade (history reviewed in Ref. 82).

The iron-regulatory hormone hepcidin is a 2.7-kDa (25 amino acid) peptide (Figure 3) containing four disulfide bonds (132, 179, 186).
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« Reply #8 on: May 10, 2015 01:28 am »

So far, I could find no quantitative studies on homeostasis failure, that is, the lowest intake amount before the homeostatic mechanism fails. In other words, what's the minimum safe daily intake.

The FDA RDA is 8 mg/day (adult males). 18 for adult females, 27 during pregnancy (I wonder if it si possible to eat all tha t iron without supplements).

Some say for vegetarians it's 14.4 (prevalence of non-heme iron); some do not agree upon that though. The 1.8 factor woudl mean almost 50 mg/day for pregnant women and that sounds huge.

The following site has good qualitative suggestions. Surprisingly enough, using a cast iron skillet provides iron fit fo rhuman absorption.
 
http://www.nomeatathlete.com/iron-for-vegetarians/
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« Reply #9 on: May 10, 2015 02:37 am »

Since I can't find studies on safe homeostatic level for iron and in lieu of similar sources, I'm going to use as a reference the accepted EAR, Estimated Average Requirement. These are goign to be the estimated lower safe levels.

Adult males: 6 mg/d
Adult females: 5 to 8 depending on age.

I feel the above may even be conservative.

One example of a daily diet in my usual regime:

-various vegetables, 300 grams: 1.5 mg
-Pumpkin seeds, 20 grams: 1.8  mg
-Chocolate, 75% cocoa, 30 grams: 3 mg
-One slice of Whole bread: 1 mg

It is already 7.3 mg

I may add once a week one cup spinach = +6 mg
I may add once a week 1/2 cup lentils = +3 mg
I may add once a week 1 cup lchickpeas = +4 mg

By combining some sources of vitamin C together with the iron sources, I believe it is not at all likely I develop deficiencies in regular conditions, even though I eat little.
I'm pretty relieved, I can avoid supplements. or use them in just small amounts once a year as a precautionary measure avoiding blood tests.

Vegan diets are rich in iron, if the vegan person  is hungry enough and eats pulses, soy being pretty high in iron. May be richer than meat eaters, actually.

pregnant females may avoid deficiencies by an accurate dietary scheme, by eating spinachs and soybeans often and together with fruit juice or other sources of vitamin C.
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« Reply #10 on: May 26, 2016 03:32 am »

hi Steve,

was it easy transitioning to vegetarian for you?

i grew up with a meat eating family. my dad would take me hunting as a kid. eating meat was a normal thing growing up and was a regular practice. cooking meat with my dad was a bonding experience.

for me attempting to become vegetarian has been a struggle. sometimes i am successful. sometimes, not so much. the environment i am in caters to eating meat as well. i should be able to surpass these things but i have failed time and time again.

the horrors of meat farming should outweigh my shortcomings- i should be able to continue a vegetarian diet. but i'm not sure i've accepted it internally anymore... knowing the horrors that be.
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« Reply #11 on: May 26, 2016 06:10 am »

hi Steve,

was it easy transitioning to vegetarian for you?

i grew up with a meat eating family. my dad would take me hunting as a kid. eating meat was a normal thing growing up and was a regular practice. cooking meat with my dad was a bonding experience.

for me attempting to become vegetarian has been a struggle. sometimes i am successful. sometimes, not so much. the environment i am in caters to eating meat as well. i should be able to surpass these things but i have failed time and time again.

the horrors of meat farming should outweigh my shortcomings- i should be able to continue a vegetarian diet. but i'm not sure i've accepted it internally anymore... knowing the horrors that be.

Everyone around me-- my friends and family ate meat. My grandfather used to take me to the stock yards and i remember him chopping the heads of chickens off as a kid. i used to eat steak and potatoes every nite at ponderosa steak house which was across the street from a musical store where i taught instruments. i was quite young at the time. Probably a teen-ager or in my early twenties. i was reading the Self Realization Fellowship Lessons at the time and wanted to meditate more deeper. i remember Paramahansa Yogananda saying that meat makes you restless and consequently it is more difficult to meditate and that it increases the animal desires in us so that desires are much harder to overcome. i immediately decided i was going to b a vegetarian. From that day on i never touched any kind of meat again. I also remember Paramahansa  talking about fish-especially bottom feeders-clams, lobsters, snails, shrimp etc. as being a detriment to spiritual unfoldment as well. It took me a couple of years to eliminate fish from my diet but i did this also. There were no vegetarians around me at the time. i just felt that it was necessary to my spiritual life. Later i reflected if i could not chop the heads off animals how could i possibly let someone else do it for me?

i now feel lighter and am not subject to as many mood swings as i had while eating meat and the dark moods that were like dark clouds following me. It looks like mccoy left a wealth of info on this thread. i will have to give it more attention. Hope this helps u Eric. i realized at a very young age that my culture, my friends and my family had very little understanding of what i was trying to do with my life. So their influence was minimal. i took pride in being different because i had a strong hunch i was way ahead of my times. Sometimes we understand that the masses are lost. We have to follow our conscious and the dictates of our intelligence and wisdom. Though we have many flaws of our own in some ways we are called to be leaders. Leaders are often new trend senders. They may be very unpopular in some ways. But history will eventually rectify the blunders of followers.
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« Reply #12 on: May 26, 2016 12:11 pm »

aya, like you guys say in America: NO SWEAT!!!

Even in my case my family tended to be carnivorous. Especially my father who was happy to eat almost only meat. I grew up with the input that meat is good and "makes blood".
My transition was similar to Steve's. I quit almost abruptly eating meat, whereas I kept eating fish for a while.

It is well known though, that not everyone can stand a sudden change in eating habits. In your case, I wouldn't worry about not being able to quit altogether. I would just do my best to eat in prevalence a healthy vegetarian diet, throwing in poultry or lean meat occasionally, when the body craves it in an overwhelming way. You may even throw in beef or red meat. You can counteract in part its toxins by eating a salad or vegetables together with it. Insistance is the key.

Healthwise, eating meat occasionally and with moderation and together with green vegetables probably woudl not cause problems.
From the standpoint of animal issues, you may accept the fact that an imperfect alive animals-lover is better than a perfect but sick or dead animals-lover.

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« Reply #13 on: May 26, 2016 12:15 pm »

@ Steve: I've been re-reading what I wrote, which I forgot in part. Yes that's all interesting evidence that a vegetarian usually has no need to worry and to use supplements, just a little knowledge of food chemistry is needed, the amounts indicated by agencies are very often cautios, being their purpose to avoid problem in 95% or 99% of the whole population.
Also, if you eat pulses, just about everything is provided. Except B12, which is provided by even modest amounts of milk or cheese.
If you don't, there are ways around, as it turns out by the simple research I carried out.
 
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« Reply #14 on: May 26, 2016 04:48 pm »

@ Steve: I've been re-reading what I wrote, which I forgot in part. Yes that's all interesting evidence that a vegetarian usually has no need to worry and to use supplements, just a little knowledge of food chemistry is needed, the amounts indicated by agencies are very often cautios, being their purpose to avoid problem in 95% or 99% of the whole population.
Also, if you eat pulses, just about everything is provided. Except B12, which is provided by even modest amounts of milk or cheese.
If you don't, there are ways around, as it turns out by the simple research I carried out.
 

i wonder if the body has a mechanism that makes u want to eat what u need? i seem to b gravitated to pulses on occasion. i do feel that uncontrolled desires of any kind lead to psychological and health issues. People need to separate needs from desires; that is not always an easy one. Because it seems like saints have less and less needs for anything since they r completely satisfied with what they are.
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