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Pros and cons of vegan diet


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Author Topic: Pros and cons of vegan diet  (Read 177 times)
the 10 moods of dr. kook
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« Reply #15 on: May 15, 2015 03:40 am »

Mccoy

I believe the possibilities are unlimted where he's from in Cloneland. Think of Chock Norris and Charles Bronson . But what really puts the icing on the cake is that are friend Steve did it grazing on grass! That distinguishes him from the other clones.

                                                                            10 or so moods
« Last Edit: May 15, 2015 03:42 am by the 10 moods of dr. kook » Report Spam   Logged
mccoy
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« Reply #16 on: May 15, 2015 09:17 am »

Dr kook, darn right, we can see his clone grazing here, pretty muscular indeed:



« Last Edit: May 15, 2015 09:35 am by mccoy » Report Spam   Logged
Laila
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« Reply #17 on: May 15, 2015 10:22 pm »


Settle down boys !     Cheesy    Now to get back to the subject …….  here is a good article on why we should ditch dairy.   The pictures didn't come through for me, but the important stuff is there anyway …..

http://www.thegreengoddesslife.com/why-should-we-ditch-the-dairy-2/


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mccoy
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« Reply #18 on: May 16, 2015 12:16 am »

Laila, you guys are real milk haters!!

First of all, the article makes no mention of quantity. A modest quantity of milk and dairy products, unless you are allergic to lactose or casein, cannot be bad. With the exception of some milk coming from intensive farming of course.
Again, I absolutely agree if you guys tell me that intensive dairy farms practice cruelty, but falling back on fallacies is not something I can agree upon. Last, milk products were a favourite of Lord Krishna. He did not practice intensive farming of course, so dairy products per se cannot be bad like depicted by some vegans.

Point #1: hormones
As I gather, studies are contradictory. It is too easy to cherrypick our sources. The following study, for example rules out significnt problems from estrogens in the tested commercial milks (because of low concentration and activity).

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22192179

Also, estrogens are correlated to fat content, the less the milk fat, the less the potential estrogens
Also: growth hormone is not legal in all countries and sure is not used in really organic milk


Point#2: casein

The cited China study is very, very contradictory. Pls just Google "bias in the milk china study" and many links will come up, refuting such study. Besides, the study is contrary to evidence. Again, I believe the bias is simply having studied a Group which was oversensitive to casein.

Point#3: calcium

I agree that overdoses of calcium usually are not only not beneficial but can have adverse effects because of the chemical buffering.
Again, I advocate moderate quantities of milk and dairy products, or tailored to the subject conditions and activities, and this makes all the objections in point 3 moot. Excess is bad. Moderation is good. Yoga philosophy at work.

Point#4: lactose

many people are indeed intolerant to lactose or little tolerant. Why to surpass the tolerance treshold, though? If my tolerance treshold to lactose is half a glass of milk, I'm goign to drink that half glass, no more. Then I'll have unsweetened, pure Whole organic yogurt, which contains no lactose. Also, curdled milk misteriously gives not the intolerance problems of simple milk, I don't know why. And most cheese do not contain significant amount of lactose.

Point#5: baby food
I agree on that. But basically, it is the same thing as saying that grass is rabbit food, bananas are monkey food, sunflowers are parrot food... Human being has just tested all the food available and  picked what was useful for survival. Also, I do not think any country would allow farms of human milk. Even though Piers Anthony, the fiction writer, wrote a story on that. The human milk farm was an illegal practice on oen planet, persecuted by galactic police.

Point#6: anabolic power of milk

Is that so bad? Not everyone is overweight. I eat little, so something which avoids weight loss is a blessing to me. Those who are overweight can dring zero-fat milk or zero fat yogurt (no sugar added). Those who feel are just OK, can have moderate quantities of milk.

Point#7: skin problems

Not everyone suffers from such a drawback. Those who do have a choice, stop having milk products or reduce the quantity, it sounds so simple to me. 
« Last Edit: May 16, 2015 12:34 am by mccoy » Report Spam   Logged
Laila
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« Reply #19 on: May 16, 2015 04:23 am »

 
Hi McCoy …..   Yes, I do honestly think that dairy products are very bad for our health.   But, this is what I really hate ……… 





« Last Edit: May 16, 2015 04:29 am by Laila » Report Spam   Logged
Zeek Zack Ziner
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« Reply #20 on: May 16, 2015 06:09 am »

Dr kook, darn right, we can see his clone grazing here, pretty muscular indeed:





Hello mccoy me name is zeek zee zack zee ziner Should i do zee clone grazing meself? Or would i too be an endangered zabe species? Dr. Kook lost heze mind. I zinc he took zee pills zat were meant for hez patients one timez too manyz. Heze senze of humor ezcapes me. i dont know if you tell truth or lie. But i do know that i get very confuzed in me mind. i just ask zome zimple advice. Could you elaborate and giz me zee wisdom izzz need? Or should I turn to Lailaz?

                                                                                          Zimply Zee
« Last Edit: May 16, 2015 06:58 am by Zeek Zack Ziner » Report Spam   Logged
mccoy
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« Reply #21 on: May 16, 2015 12:27 pm »

...i just ask zome zimple advice. Could you elaborate and giz me zee wisdom izzz need? Or should I turn to Lailaz?

Zeek Zack, first of all, congratulations for your moniker, I love the onomatopeic allitteration with the added  layers of concealed and manifest  meanings.

I would answer to you: this is a discussion between feeling (Laila's compassion for cows) and reason (mccoy's dissection of chemical contents and health advantages of dairy). Two different issues, overlapping in some areas.

The wisdom beneath the thread is that, everyone should adjust his or her behaviour to the needs of his or her body and mind. In the most objective and sensible way possible.
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Laila
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« Reply #22 on: May 16, 2015 11:23 pm »

Some people are influenced by arguments based on reason, some people are influenced by feeling, but what I have observed is that, in making food choices, the vast majority of people are influenced only by their taste buds and their stomachs !!!     People will come up with any rationalization and justification to continue making the same food choices, even when presented with the undeniable facts :    meat, dairy and eggs are bad for our health, the environment, and come from inhumane sources.   

Divine Mother has presented us with wonderful food alternatives to all animal-sourced foods, but we would rather support the agro businesses than change our diets.   We would rather see cows and their calves separated at birth than eat more greens, seeds, nuts, etc.   We would rather eat eggs from miserable, cramped up chickens with their beaks cut off than bother to look for protein alternatives.    Why ?   Because we are slaves to our taste buds.   

If you want strictly reason-based arguments for not consuming meat, eggs and dairy, there is tons of stuff out there.   I could give a list of links a mile long.    Here's just a couple on the influence of dairy on the environment …...

http://waterfootprint.org/media/downloads/Hoekstra-2012-Water-Meat-Dairy.pdf

http://e360.yale.edu/feature/as_dairy_farms_grow_bigger_new_concerns_about_pollution/2768/


And we can always count on Dr. Greger to give us the most up-to-date information on living a healthy plant-based diet ……















« Last Edit: May 16, 2015 11:35 pm by Laila » Report Spam   Logged
mccoy
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« Reply #23 on: May 16, 2015 11:33 pm »

Laila, I basically agree with your reasonings. After all, in between one T-bone steak and the other I'm a perfect vegan. LOL, sorry just messing with you.

My only objection is that milk, eggs, dairy products, from organic sources, in suitable amounts, are good for health, not bad. Barring subjective allergies and problems of course. This is my personal experience of almost 40 years of vegetarian diet.

All other things are undisputably true.

Pls see the other thread about finding friendly sources of eggs and dairy products. Not easy, nor impossible though.
« Last Edit: May 16, 2015 11:34 pm by mccoy » Report Spam   Logged
Laila
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« Reply #24 on: May 16, 2015 11:48 pm »

Perhaps it's time to agree to disagree and leave it at that.    I don't believe in the myth that there are humane sources of dairy.   Perhaps eggs, as Steve has noted above, if you actually see with your own eyes how the chickens are treated.   Even then, I hate to say, the hatcheries where the chickens originated from ALL destroy male chicks either by suffocating or putting them in grinding machines …. alive.  It's just a sad fact.    All dairies dispose of the unwanted male calves, which are sold and raised for veal.   Even "humane" dairies do that.  It would be extremely rare to find any dairy that is willing to let all the male calves live, and look after them.

So, I'm not interested at all in finding "friendly" sources of eggs and dairy.   I don't think there is such a thing, plus I'm really happy with the way I eat now.   it's more interesting, more varied, and a whole lot healthier.    I was a vegetarian for 35 years before becoming vegan, and their is a substantial difference in how one feels.  I wish I had done it years ago.

IDF
Laila
   
« Last Edit: May 17, 2015 06:36 am by Laila » Report Spam   Logged
mccoy
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« Reply #25 on: May 17, 2015 11:53 am »

Laila, I wonder why you have to be so radical. Sheep herding in my places is almost totally natural, when there is grass on the soil the owners sure do not spend any money in industrial feed. Plus, the milk is far tastier. To my knowledge, lambs are grown or eaten, never wasted away. There is a culture millennia old about that. I'm also starting to get information about farmers with small family-run stables and cows. All this because of your info which sure made the sad situation of cows known to me.
And if you feel better as a vegan, that's a fact, who's going to argue tabout that?

In your honour and in honour of the vegan community, this morning I had a vegan brunch:

2 apples
2 bananas
Almonds and raisins
Chocolate powder plus hot water and chestnut honey.

I feel greeeeeeeeeeeaat!
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Laila
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« Reply #26 on: May 17, 2015 01:02 pm »

Hi McCoy …….  I guess I do sound radical to many people, but in my mind I'm not radical at all.    I just want to live as harmless a life as possible.   There are many vegans in the world today, and in my area even many raw vegans, which is something I wouldn't attempt.   They seem radical to me, but for them it's quite a natural way of life.    So I guess "radical" is kind of a subjective term.

I do a lot of animal rights petitioning, letters, etc. online and communicate with others who feel the same way as I do.   I belong to several animal welfare groups too.   There is a big sub-culture developing of people (mostly young people, I am happy to say), who are very interested in changing the way animals in the world are treated, and helping the environment.  It's an exciting thing to see and be a part of, even though I play such a small part.   

Your brunch sounds purrrrfect !    I keep a bowl full of almonds, raisins, walnuts, pumpkin seeds, sunflower seeds, coconut chips and goji berries on the counter to nibble at.   It's an easy way to get lots of protein and other nutrients without cooking, LOL.   

IDF,
Laila



« Last Edit: May 17, 2015 01:19 pm by Laila » Report Spam   Logged
the 10 moods of dr. kook
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« Reply #27 on: May 17, 2015 05:21 pm »

Hi McCoy …….  I guess I do sound radical to many people, but in my mind I'm not radical at all.    I just want to live as harmless a life as possible.   There are many vegans in the world today, and in my area even many raw vegans, which is something I wouldn't attempt.   They seem radical to me, but for them it's quite a natural way of life.    So I guess "radical" is kind of a subjective term.

I do a lot of animal rights petitioning, letters, etc. online and communicate with others who feel the same way as I do.   I belong to several animal welfare groups too.   There is a big sub-culture developing of people (mostly young people, I am happy to say), who are very interested in changing the way animals in the world are treated, and helping the environment.  It's an exciting thing to see and be a part of, even though I play such a small part.   

Your brunch sounds purrrrfect !    I keep a bowl full of almonds, raisins, walnuts, pumpkin seeds, sunflower seeds, coconut chips and goji berries on the counter to nibble at.   It's an easy way to get lots of protein and other nutrients without cooking, LOL.   

IDF,
Laila



Life on the Farm

Well you have another convert on your side.  I am vegan. Although I'm happy about the eggs i just bought from a very small farm where I was shown the chickens wondering aimlessly. It looked like they had been at a big party the previous night and we're now recovering. The cows were laying down with calves apparently teaching morality to the young ones.  There were ducks nearby, 'farting' in the morning fog.

                                    10 distinct moods
« Last Edit: May 17, 2015 05:45 pm by the 10 moods of dr. kook » Report Spam   Logged
mccoy
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« Reply #28 on: May 17, 2015 10:05 pm »

Hi McCoy …….  I guess I do sound radical to many people, but in my mind I'm not radical at all.    I just want to live as harmless a life as possible.   There are many vegans in the world today, and in my area even many raw vegans, which is something I wouldn't attempt.   They seem radical to me, but for them it's quite a natural way of life.    So I guess "radical" is kind of a subjective term.

Absolutely so! Diet is such a subjective matter, in its objectivity of chemicals and gunas.

My technical opinion is that the proof lies in the pudding. If a raw vegan can survive on a raw diet and survive well, for prolonged periods, even by taking supplements, then it works and that's great for him or her. But they should be honest, they should specify that occasionally they make exceptions, it that's the case.
I wonder where is your area with such a concentration of raw vegans, San Francisco?
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Laila
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« Reply #29 on: May 18, 2015 06:09 am »

I live on the west coast of Canada, McCoy.   There are quite a lot of "alternative" lifestyle people here, which includes vegans and raw vegans, environmental and animal activists, etc.    Of course there are still a lot of "regular people" and meat eaters too !    But, we're working on them ………    Smiley

That sounds like a great farm, dr. kook !!!!   

IDF
Laila
« Last Edit: May 18, 2015 06:40 am by Laila » Report Spam   Logged

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