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Pros and cons of vegan diet

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Laila
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« Reply #45 on: May 23, 2015 09:02 pm »

No, I guess the stories I posted don't really relate to any of us here.    I just thought they were inspiring as it's not often you hear of farmers having a change of heart towards their animals, becoming vegan and opening animal sanctuaries.   It is happening more than ever before though.     Here is a song this ex-cattle rancher's wife wrote, about the red trailer that used to take the baby calves away to slaughter.    Happily, not anymore, in this case anyway !!!

We all can decide what's right for us, with regard to diet, and out attitude to animals and their rights.    I admit my attitude is more radical than most, but the numbers of people like me are growing fast.    Smiley



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Jitendra Hy-do-u-no-us?
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« Reply #46 on: May 28, 2015 04:37 pm »

Wow Leila

I have this protein shake lately its by made by a odwalla. This chocolate protein shake is made with soy milk, filtered water, cane sugar.... oh there is a little milk protein concentrate... I didn't realize that but it is it's just full of   b12 - hundred eighty percent, copper 40% iron 30% b6 hundred eighty percent and calcium 90%. What a drink. Just thought I'd let you know I've got all my my parsley snd herb plants growing in the truck I'm driving... plus all my sprouts. They get shuffled around because they don't look too good after that. It takes some adapting!
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« Reply #47 on: May 28, 2015 09:48 pm »


That sounds great, Steve !  I'm amazed that you can grow herbs, etc. in the truck.   You're very inventive !!!   

I've been experimenting with a lot of different ways to make protein smoothies.    Lately I've been blending up nuts and seeds, like walnuts, pumpkin and sunflower seeds, til they're just a powder, then adding leafy greens, and then lots of berries …..  blueberries, etc., and bananas.    That way you get protein and lots of antioxidants at the same time.    There's no end to the fun you can have with a good blender !   LOL. 
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« Reply #48 on: Aug 08, 2016 10:33 pm »

An interesting blog by Denise Minger on the data used by Campbell in his china study to criticize dairy products. It turns out that the data prove nothing, being based on two provinces made up of heavy dairy products consumers. Also, the correlation numbers appear to prove nothing. Campbell observed that rats fed on casein were unhealthy. That proves little as well.

https://rawfoodsos.com/2010/06/20/a-closer-look-at-the-china-study-dairy-and-disease/
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« Reply #49 on: Aug 08, 2016 11:46 pm »

((( Laila ))))

What a wonderful source of information you provide here at the Portal.

Much Love and Respect for all that you've contributed here and I hope we hear from you again. =)

Cheers, thank you mccoy for resurrecting this thread.  Smiley
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« Reply #50 on: Aug 10, 2016 01:41 pm »

Hi daemoon, glad you are reading with interest and I too would like to meet you in person sometime.
I've recently decided to update my rusty knowledge of nutrition for practical purposes. Presently, dietary science has been revolutionized by some concepts which are pretty sensible.

There is no 'healthy diet' in absolute, although 'natural' diets are regarded as such.

'Natural' means no refined or processed foods, junk food and so on. No sweets is much better.

I concur with the accepted, sensible concept  that a vegan (or vegetarian) diet which contains a lot of commercial junk vegan food and little natural food is far worse than a diet where meat and fish are consumed in moderate amounts together with plenty vegetables and other wholesome, natural food.

The meat-eaters concur that meat should be from grass-fed animals, not the commercial stock. Although I imagine that grassfed is expensive and out of the reach of most people.

There are some interesting people out there like Dr Hyman, who coined the term peganism, that is, paleo-veganism. They eat mostly vegan but with the addiction of some animal food which is more consistent with the gatherer-omnivore nature of the apes from whom we genetically descend.

Conceptually, I do not concur that a pure paleo diet is the best for the human being, simply because the conditions during the glacial periods (paleolithic diet) should not necessarily be the ones ruling the genetics of our digestive system. Also, there are some populations which have been studied, just emerging from the paleolithic, which ate mostly plant based food (this in tropical areas).

Bottom line, everyone should understand what is an healthy diet for him/herself according to his/her subjective conditions and tolerances, which are widely variable. Possibly without cheating, LOL.
« Last Edit: Aug 10, 2016 01:45 pm by mccoy » Report Spam   Logged
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« Reply #51 on: Aug 10, 2016 03:00 pm »

Denise Minger is a young lady who is a nutrition buff who has read and reasoned very extensively, besides being author of a book: 'Death by The food Pyramid'.

In her site there is a section on veganism. She is a former vegan turned less strict and has some sensible suggestions for those who would like to avoid the potential dangers of a vegan diet.
My opinion still is that the best vegan is a non-vegan, I apologize for that but there are too many loose ends to such a strict diet regime, the first being the necessity to fall back on supplements for most people.

https://rawfoodsos.com/for-vegans/

Even though I don’t believe strict vegan diets are optimal from a health perspective, I do think there are ways to make the best out of a meatless, eggless, and dairyless situation. I’d like to offer some of those ideas on this page so that anybody personally committed to veganism can maximize their chance of staying healthy, and hopefully avoid the most common pitfalls us annoying ex-vegans blather on about. (Please note that this isn’t an endorsement for current omnivores to convert to veganism, and there’s no guarantee you’ll truly thrive even if you follow all the suggestions below—but I do think these guidelines will give vegans the best chance possible for warding off health problems.)

In no particular order of importance, here’s a summary of the list, followed by a more detailed version of each point:

Eat real food—no fake meats, processed soy products, vegan junk food, etc.
Avoid high omega-6 vegetable oils and take a vegan DHA supplement.
Supplement with vitamin K2.
Supplement with a vegan form of vitamin D3.
Enhance your beta carotene absorption and conversion.
Properly prepare any grains, legumes, or nuts you eat.
Maximize iron absorption using vitamin-C-rich foods.
Keep your thyroid in good shape.
Take vitamin B12.
Try going gluten-free.
Eat some fermented foods.
Supplement with taurine.
Consider adding oysters or other non-sentient bivalves to your diet.

« Last Edit: Aug 10, 2016 03:02 pm by mccoy » Report Spam   Logged
guest88
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« Reply #52 on: Aug 10, 2016 07:11 pm »

hi mccoy,

i'm not sure if i've said it here already but my sister shared something with me that rings true and that's that it's all one big health journey
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« Reply #53 on: Apr 28, 2018 09:29 am »

really happy to bump this thread and come back to interesting reads.
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Jitendra Hy-do-u-no-us?
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« Reply #54 on: Sep 16, 2023 04:07 pm »

another aspect which you cannot say to Christians but that we are aware of: the gospesl is what we have, wha has been selected and cut out by the Church. We have many more gospesl, liek the Essene gospel where Jesus is described as a vegetarian and requiring strict vegetarianism, even fruitaranism, from hsi disciples. I adhere to the Essene gospel and to the apocryphe gospels, not  just the official gospels of the Christian Church, which have been censored.

I found this very interesting site. Pls note what it is written in teh characters I boldened. Like Krishna, Jesus admitted milk but only from animals which were well cared and loved.
This source is interesting but it would tke some more research to validate it adequately, it comes from a vegan site.
Eating only the plant food which does not kill the plant seems very sensible to me. Why should we avoide cruelty towards animals and practice cruelty towards plants???

http://www.towardsfreedom.com/249.html

Quote
In the Essene New Testament, Jesus declares:

Verily I say unto you, they who partake of benefits which are gotten by wronging one of God's creatures, cannot be righteous: nor can they understand holy things, or teach the mysteries of the kingdom. whose hands are stained with blood or whose mouths are defiled with flesh....Wherefore I say unto all who desire to be my disciples, keep your hands from bloodshed and let no flesh meat enter your mouths.

We see above that Jesus required vegetarianism from anyone who desired to become his disciple. Likewise, we read in another verse from the same manuscript:

A disciple of Jesus asked him a question, saying, "Master, if there come to us any that eat flesh... shall we receive them?"
And Jesus said unto him, let such abide in the outer court till they cleanse themselves from these grosser evils; for till they perceive, and repent of these, they are not fit to receive the higher mysteries.

Of course, Jesus practiced what he preached; he was himself a vegetarian. In fact, in the following verse he describes himself not only as a vegetarian, but as an Essene Fruitarian. Before sharing that verse with you, I will briefly define the term Essene Fruitarian (a bit later we will more fully define it). An Essene Fruitarian eats only the parts of a plant that can be eaten without killing the plant. This includes obvious fruits such as apples and oranges, but also includes anything else you can eat without killing the plant: squash, corn, cucumbers, etc. We will expand on this definition soon, but let us now consider the following verse in which Jesus describes himself not only as a vegetarian, but as an Essene Fruitarian:

For of the fruits of the trees and the seeds of the earth alone do I partake, and these are changed by the Spirit into my flesh and my blood. Of these alone and their like shall ye eat who believe in me, and are my disciples, for of these, in the Spirit, come life and health and healing unto man.

In the above excerpt, the term "and their like" refers to "other similar vegetarian foods" ; but it is quite clear that though Jesus only required basic vegetarianism from new disciples, he certainly strongly encouraged his veteran disciples to go on to become Essene fruitarians. That is made clear in the following excerpt from The Essene New Testament; Jesus said:

God giveth the grains and the fruits of the earth for food; and for righteous man truly there is no other lawful sustenance for the body.... For God is just and bountiful who ordaineth that man shall live by the fruits and seeds of the earth alone.

Now a more detailed definition of the term Essene Fruitarian. We have already stated that an Essene Fruitarian eats only the part of a plant that can be eaten without killing the plant. Thus, not only the typical "fruits" can be eaten -- grapefruit, grapes, figs, dates, etc. -- but also corn, squash, broccoli, almonds, sunflower seeds, AND ANY OTHER VEGETARIAN FOOD YOU CAN EAT WITHOUT KILLING THE PLANT . Lettuce can be eaten if harvested correctly : simply pick the outer leaves of the lettuce, rather than uproot the plant. The lettuce will continue to grow more leaves and you can continue to harvest the outer leaves every few days. Eventually it will go to seed; you can harvest the seed for your next planting. Even grains such as wheat can be eaten, since it is not necessary to uproot the grass to harvest the grain. Although many Essene Fruitarians will choose to be vegan (a vegan is a vegetarian who eats no animal products at all, including dairy products), it is possible to eat dairy products on this diet since the animal is not killed and the milk comes from grass that need not be uprooted. However, it is important that the dairy product be from animals that are loved and well cared for, and that the animals are not killed when they grow old and non-productive. Jesus permitted his Essene Fruitarian disciples to have milk products; but in those days that meant RAW milk from animals you or your neighbors loved and cared for, as they had no cruel factory dairy farms back then. And the milk would have been from sheep or goats, not cows. The milk of sheep and goats is far easier to digest than the milk of a cow. The milk you buy at a typical grocery store in modern America IS NOT THE MILK ENDORSED BY JESUS! Grocery store milk is not raw, is not from animals well cared for, and is not from sheep or goats. Again, one can choose to be a vegan Essene Fruitarian. But in order to support my assertion that Jesus permitted his disciples to use RAW dairy products, I quote from The Essene Gospel of Peace:

Brother mccoy, I found this post you included, of particular interest, since I’ve always had reservations about drinking milk from farms where cows go to slaughter houses or are butchered…..or taking eggs from industrial farms that are cruel to animals, and they are living in small cages and are ‘used’ for huge turn out of eggs and no respect is given to them as living breathing creatures who are meant to fly and live freely in the fields. Today I attempt to drink soy milk and skip using eggs unless I can get them from local farms and cage free chickens. Or their chicks are ground up for chicken McNuggets at McDonalds death camps. I see the link you provided is no longer available. Courtesy of the United Clones 🥩 extermination camps and centers?
« Last Edit: Sep 16, 2023 04:21 pm by Jitendra Hydonus » Report Spam   Logged

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« Reply #55 on: Sep 17, 2023 05:30 pm »

Steve, if you would like to go mostly vegan, it's possible with a reasonable price now. In 2017  tried out a vegan diet for 1.5 years. It was all right, except that, to meet my energy requirements and not lose weight, I had to eat nontrivial amounts of food and often felt bloated.

I still eat lots of plant-based food but add dairy products to it, and sometimes eggs. I may change my diet again, but so far I feel pretty good about it.

Soy products, like soy milk, and tofu are inexpensive and contain hi-quality protein. You may add some vegan protein to it, they say rice protein is good tasting.
Seitan is also a good source of protein. Mushrooms are very good as well. Most vegetables contain protein, although not as absorbable as soy.
All nuts contain protein but probably 20% of it is not absorbed. There are studies on roasted pistachio nuts, they seem to have absorbable protein almost the quality of soy protein.

A breakfast of soy milk with whole grain oat flakes (soaked overnight and warmed up) is very nourishing and inexpensive. I used to add vegan protein, nuts and seeds, honey, cacao powder and that became a meal by itself.

Frozen spinach with whole grain cereals and some beans are are inexpensive, filling and nourishing.

There are many, many reasonably pricing, good tasting and nourishing combinations.
« Last Edit: Sep 17, 2023 05:32 pm by mccoy » Report Spam   Logged
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« Reply #56 on: Sep 17, 2023 06:45 pm »

By the way, here in Italy, organic farming (egg and dairy) implies more ethical conditions for the cattle and fowl.  Not as good as free-ranging, but best than regular industrial production.
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