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Steve Hydonus
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« on: May 22, 2015 03:55 am »

http://news.yahoo.com/global-warming-debate-heats-jeb-bush-clashes-president-193638986.html
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« Reply #1 on: May 22, 2015 09:55 pm »

The issue of climate change has maybe become too politicized to understand how much scientific truth there is in it.

Anyway, many are speaking about that, no one is speaking about a viable solution. Maybe because there is no viable, or realistic solution, neither to natural, nor to anthropic heating of the atmosphere.
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« Reply #2 on: May 28, 2015 10:20 am »

There is one way we can help stop climate change ….. change our diets !   Animal agriculture is probably the number one cause …...

http://www.cowspiracy.com/facts/

http://www.worldwatch.org/node/6294

http://www.hsi.org/issues/climate_change/

http://www.new-harvest.org/2015/01/worlds-leading-driver-climate-change-animal-agriculture/

http://www.peta.org/issues/animals-used-for-food/global-warming/
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mccoy
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« Reply #3 on: May 28, 2015 02:01 pm »

Laila, I cannot express opinions because that's a host of material which would require lots of time to evaluate carefully.

Assuming that's one of the reasons, or the main reasons, is it realistic that in the short or middle term  all of America and all of the developed world and all the developing countries renounce meat and all animal derivatives?

I'm afraid no. That's one source which I believe cannot be ruled out of the prediction equations.

What about other sources? I'm skeptic about the other sources as well, at least, I'm skeptic that a global benefit can be achieved by local restrictions.
« Last Edit: May 29, 2015 10:33 pm by mccoy » Report Spam   Logged
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« Reply #4 on: May 29, 2015 12:01 am »

Sorry, McCoy.     I guess I did get a bit carried away with the links !    LOL.    The first one really says it all.

:}
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Steve Hydonus
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« Reply #5 on: Jun 09, 2015 06:38 am »

The Republican stance on manmade climate change has, historically, been resolute, if not entirely unanimous. Among the likely 2016 GOP contenders, candidates such as Ted Cruz, Rick Santorum, and Mike Huckabee have vigorously denied that humans are changing the climate, with Mr. Santorum calling it "a beautifully concocted scheme by liberals." Rand Paul shows no support for acknowledging climate problems in his voting record.

At least Jeb Bush acknowledges the possibility;

"[T]he climate is changing," the former Florida governor and likely 2016 candidate said in comments made Wednesday, but, he added, it's not clear whether humans are to blame

Sorry, McCoy.     I guess I did get a bit carried away with the links !    LOL.    The first one really says it all.

:}

Laila I do not believe it to be overkill. It is just that many of us get more out of reading something that is written on the forum. So decided to put some words here myself. There are many recent studies that show ice on earth is melting at an alarming rate; to deny any human responsibility seems very ignorant to me.
« Last Edit: Jun 09, 2015 07:08 am by Steve Hydonus » Report Spam   Logged

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« Reply #6 on: Jun 09, 2015 11:07 am »

...There are many recent studies that show ice on earth is melting at an alarming rate; to deny any human responsibility seems very ignorant to me.

Steve, that's not so simple, and here I'm reasoning by the scientific standpoint, absolutely no political bias involved (I'm also a foreigner so not directly involved in American policy).

The Tricky point in climate change science is that in nature there are Always climatic fluctuations. We have various records from geology, sedimentology, glaciology, palinology and more. The debate presently is whether the present trend is natural or has been influenced by anthropic change, in the latter case how much it hs been influenced.

Not a banal point. Have human emissions been stronger than volcanic emissions for example? A large volcanic eruption hurls in the atmosphere incredible quantities of gases and powders.

Again, as soon as the supporters of anthropic change publish some evidence, other researchers publish scientific objections. There are presently 3 potential, serious sources of bias in the research:

1)Personal bias: a resercher carries out a study, such study becomes his or her conceptual creature, the same as a painting or a sculpture or a tune to artists. If he cannot mantain a really objective attitude, he becomes biased and will nto recognize criticism
2)Financial and career bias: in academia, the more you publish in technical journals, the more you gain prestige, credentials, career and ultimately money. It isa well known fact that many researchers publish just to boost their publication list. Data or interpretations may be distorted
3) Political bias: that's the wors, since it creates funding scheme which encourage a particular bias. A real researcher must absolutely be unbiased, data must speak, not politicians.


So, presently, until I'm able to go deeper into recent research, I cannot draw conclusions and remain a skeptic.

Of course, one line of reasoning might be: Let's adopt the worst case scenario. Climate is changing because of human activities.

Okey doke, but, now, what are we going to do? Use alternative energies, I agree, deleting the oil monopoly would be just great. but is it going to be enough? Closing factories?  And what about the unemployed? We'd have social unrest and riots. And what about China, India, Brasil, Indonesia? Would they be willing to sacrifice their development? After the presently developed countries have polluted the world and become rich?

The issue is not easy at all.
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« Reply #7 on: Jun 09, 2015 11:25 am »

A proposal that I have if guys in this forum are interested, is to start examining material on climate change from the most basic sources as Wikipedia and commentign them trying to reach some reasonable conclusion on the present state of the research. This is a topic where I believe there is no easy prior judgement that one explanation is totally unlikely. That is: I believe the truth may be either one, or even both hypotheses.
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Steve Hydonus
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« Reply #8 on: Jun 09, 2015 12:44 pm »

Mccoy u put your ideas in such complicated terms. I have done no studies so I have no self interest in their results. I have lived on this planet for decades. All I do is make observations. My father told me that year after year people could drive over Lake Michigan in the winter in the 1950's. Now year after year u can see unfrozen water. I have seen such horrible polution in Los Angeles and other cities that looked like the appocolypse. I have seen incredibly cold winters with snow up to the windows replaced by winters with snow never reaching those levels. We are talking about decades here.... Not hundreds of years or thousands. Some of these things are impossible to deny the human element and the short term consequences are alarming.

What can we do about it? First and for most acknowledge the problem. Second vote for people who are trying to make changes. Third make differences in our own personal life styles.
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« Reply #9 on: Jun 09, 2015 08:04 pm »

First and for most acknowledge the problem. Second vote for people who are trying to make changes. Third make differences in our own personal life styles.

IMHO, I believe the 3rd point is the most important. To me it's the only point worthwhile.
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« Reply #10 on: Jun 09, 2015 10:46 pm »

Steve,
I carried out a fast research on the internet and it appears that most specific researchers support a human-related global warming.

Since it would take a huge amount of time to me to go into teh details, I'm going to settle presently with such consensus, barring further developments.

Now, after having accepted that most climate scientist support anthropogenic warming, hence after havng implied the high degree of confidence of such an hypothesis, barring a collective delusion of most scientists, what are we going to do?

I think we agree that America and the developed countries should not declare war to India, Indonesia, China and Brasil if they refuse to cut their emissions.
« Last Edit: Jun 09, 2015 11:33 pm by mccoy » Report Spam   Logged
Steve Hydonus
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« Reply #11 on: Jun 09, 2015 11:30 pm »

When we speak of climatic changes there is much more involved then the heat factor. Let me give an example that is supported by the Self Realization Fellowship and Amma. SRF specifically warns members to use caution and not practice the long sun baths that Paramahansa Yogananda recommended in the SRF lessons in the 1950's and 40's. Why? because of the depletion of the ozone layer and harmful ultra violet rays entering the the atmosphere as well as the increase in skin cancer.  Amma has specifically announced that our treatment of mother earth is the number one concern socially and politically... even more so then the possibility of war.

If we do not believe Master's and spiritual organizations we respect we run the risk of harm to ourselves and the rest of humanity.

« Last Edit: Jun 09, 2015 11:36 pm by Steve Hydonus » Report Spam   Logged

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« Reply #12 on: Jun 09, 2015 11:36 pm »

Steve, I changed my previous post since I realized I cannot objectively hold a contrarian opinion to an anthropogenic change of climate.

But again, what would be the proposals to deal with this warming in such a way that the remedy would not be worse than the illness?
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« Reply #13 on: Jun 09, 2015 11:53 pm »

This is the list of the states with the highest Carbon emissions in Kt (2013):

1) China, 10.3 millions
2)USA, about 5.3 millions
3) European Union, 3.7
3)India, 2.1 millions
4) Russia, 1.8 millions
5) Japan, 1.4 millions

So, China+India+Russia, countries which have no intention to adhere to emission restrictions, add up to 14 millions Kt per year C02
the Usa with 5.3 is almost one third as much.

USA+Europe+Japan = 10.4 , still less than China+India+Russia
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« Reply #14 on: Jun 09, 2015 11:56 pm »

Let me give an example that is supported by the Self Realization Fellowship and Amma. SRF specifically warns members to use caution and not practice the long sun baths that Paramahansa Yogananda recommended in the SRF lessons. Why? because of the depletion of the ozone layer and harmful ultra violet rays entering the the atmosphere as well as the increase in skin cancer.

Also it might be because in this era they may become liable if someone has sensitive skin or just plain stays out too long.
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