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Steve Hydonus
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« on: Sep 01, 2015 10:10 pm »

Obama has gone to Alaska to speak at a State Department climate change conference. More than 3.5 trillion tons of water have melted off of Alaska glaciers since 1959, when Alaska first became a state. But this is just a weather cycle we are going through. Rite folks? That is enough to fill 1 billion Olympic - size pools. But we shouldn't listen to these pronouncements think what we may do to the economy as the Republicans say.

The crucial, coast - hugging sea ice that protects villages from storms is dwindling in the summer and now is absent each year a month longer than it was in the 1970's. The Army Corps of Engineers identified 26 villages where erosion linked to sea ice loss threatens the communities' existance. But we have no conclusive proof of global warming. Rite? If we wait for the Republicans to do something about global warming... we wait while destruction to the environment and possible extinction looms dark around us. Perhaps not for us but what about our children's children?
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« Reply #1 on: Sep 02, 2015 12:40 am »

Steve, it is unfortunate that the positions crystallized like two enemy armies arrayed on the battlefiled.
Republicans: there is no global warming
Democrats: we'll be soon flooded by rising sea levels.

I hope people will stop being too much influenced by the pressures of political parties.

I'm trying to steer clear of any bias. Objectively, many areas in the world exhibit signs of average warming.
hard or impossible to deny it.

The cause of such warming is not clear yet. Natural or anthropic?

In the assumption that GW is anthropogenic, what should we do about it?

Close the coal power plants and open new nuclear power plants like professor James Hansen suggests?

Close the coal power plants AND close the nuclear power plants and accept an industrial decline, social strife and riots whiel trying to develop efficient power plants based on solar and eolic power?

Not an easy question. I'm  in the process of retrofitting my house. I'm going to install a wood pellet boiler, an environment-friendly system. I'm planning to rig up photovoltaic cells and start to produce and accumulate my own power from clean and renewable sources. I would also like to rig up a domestic eolic system. If the money is enough. But I'm one among many, many people who have not the concern or who are concerned but have no money.
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« Reply #2 on: Sep 02, 2015 02:32 am »

Steve, it is unfortunate that the positions crystallized like two enemy armies arrayed on the battlefiled.
Republicans: there is no global warming
Democrats: we'll be soon flooded by rising sea levels.

I hope people will stop being too much influenced by the pressures of political parties.

I'm trying to steer clear of any bias. Objectively, many areas in the world exhibit signs of average warming.
hard or impossible to deny it.

The cause of such warming is not clear yet. Natural or anthropic?

In the assumption that GW is anthropogenic, what should we do about it?

Close the coal power plants and open new nuclear power plants like professor James Hansen suggests?

Close the coal power plants AND close the nuclear power plants and accept an industrial decline, social strife and riots whiel trying to develop efficient power plants based on solar and eolic power?

Not an easy question. I'm  in the process of retrofitting my house. I'm going to install a wood pellet boiler, an environment-friendly system. I'm planning to rig up photovoltaic cells and start to produce and accumulate my own power from clean and renewable sources. I would also like to rig up a domestic eolic system. If the money is enough. But I'm one among many, many people who have not the concern or who are concerned but have no money.

i think what we need to be aware of is that there are people in government who are taking action and do have the rescources to start vast new projects and will be running in our next presidential election while others show little, no concern or no acknowledgement of what is taking place. What is important to recognize is that there are regular oil spills that destroy our natural wild life and our vacation lands. We do not need evidence of this it is obvious. There are candidates like Hilary Clinton who want to take us away from an oil dependent nation to a earth friendly model. I have not heard any Democrats yet saying anything about being soon flooded by the seas. But it is evident by the Valdez oil spill, the Exon oil spill and the BP oil spill that that we need to find some other way instead of just oil dependency to power our nations. Using the power of the wind and Sun would also avert global warming.

We must recognize that there are power structures, especially within the Republican Party that do not want to see this happen. Why? Because their investments are in oil and coal and if there is a change they stand to loose their profits. The differences on helping the environment are striking; the Republican Party showing little interest and the Democratic part moving progressively forward into a new age and new energy sources that will help us both environmentally and in our discovery of new world's out in space.
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« Reply #3 on: Sep 03, 2015 01:00 am »

...I  have not heard any Democrats yet saying anything about being soon flooded by the seas.

That's good, because professor Hansen is just writing that in his scientifical peer reviewed papers, which have been published by authoritative magazines.

I'm glad his extreme activism has not been taken literally by politicians.

What's funny is that Hansen the scientist writes in his papers topics which would be a concern of politicians. Whereas politicians avoid to use such an extreme worst case scenario depicted by himself (significant and quick rise in sea levels). The latest article of professor Hansen is still recent though.

I hope democrats do not follow his suggestions to beef up the network of nuclear power plants.
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« Reply #4 on: Sep 29, 2015 08:14 pm »

http://climate.nasa.gov/scientific-consensus/
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« Reply #5 on: Sep 30, 2015 11:42 pm »

Steve, do you remember? Nasa is the same, ostensibly very authoritative agency which did not know the basic difference between sidereal and tropical astrology and insisted that it was all wrong. In the meanwhile making a show of abysmal ignorance.

Nevertheless, many other agencies, pretty much different form each other, would tend to confirm the reality of antrhopogenic warming. The way NASA pouts it is pretty overwhelming. So overwhelming to look maybe suspicious... (my association with you guys is starting to make me prone to see conspiracies Beyond such a display of 'consensus').

Well, if it is really so, I just hope more nuclear plants is not the proposed solution. I hope all the cited agencies have not been bought out by the lobbists of nuclear power.

If it is really so, the American deserts should right now begin to be filled up by photovoltaic power plants and the windy plains by aeolic power plants,

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« Reply #6 on: Sep 30, 2015 11:54 pm »

Steve, do you remember? Nasa is the same, ostensibly very authoritative agency which did not know the basic difference between sidereal and tropical astrology and insisted that it was all wrong.

Yes precisely; that is why I included 200 references from scientific organizations that have the same view. See the bottom link and the references above as well. Looking for chink in my armor?
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« Reply #7 on: Sep 30, 2015 11:59 pm »

Steve, congratulations, you've been exceptionally fast to answer!

I modified my answer as you previously  saw it.

200 agencies is a lot, my considerations are expressed in my previous modified post.

I'm still a little suspicious about this much consensus though.
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« Reply #8 on: Oct 01, 2015 12:10 am »

I read the list of 197 organizations.

They are a little too many. Such a number suggests a political, rather than a scientific support to a still unproved theory (let's remember, everything is based on numerical models).

Anyway Steve, I'm Beyond that now, beyond my own thoughts, after I read professor Hansen's proposals, I believe that such consensus can be used to support even neo-nazi proposals.

I'm sitting on the fence and just see what happens.
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« Reply #9 on: Oct 01, 2015 03:26 pm »

More musings on the global warming issue:

2 different factions. The factions are no more simply scientific. They are political. Because of personal and group beliefs, personal and group interests.
The above makes the situation fuzzier than it should be. Lots of material. Obstensible lack of objectivity. Hot issue where survival of humankind may be involved. Emotion involved rather than sheer scientific objectivity.
The above is my gut feeling, true or wrong that it be.

I like to be pushed off balance in my stance because that gives me an opportunity to further reasonings. I thank Steve on that and I encourage him to present further evidence in favour of the anthropogenic nature of global warming. The 197 agencies supporting the anthropogenic change idea are undoubtedly a very strong voice to reckon with. And I'm going to investigate on that.

In the meanwhile, in this regard, just adopting the precautionary principle as a preliminary strategic plan, what would be a constructive line of action?

Professor Hansen's answer is a drastic reduction in CO2 emissions. He is well aware though that it would imply an industrial and economic crisis, so he proposes an increase in the number of nuclear power plants.

Such an idea is not shared by whole populations. In some states, like Italy, the overwhelming majority of population has voted against nuclear power, feeling that it poses an unacceptable hazard.

Another obvious aspect is that actions undertaken by the USA alone would have little effects. China, India, Indonesia and other developing countries emit the most CO2 in the atmosphere.
So the USA should strive to create incentives not only in the domestic market but in the global market as well.

The economical incentive woudl be to create a strong market for clean energy: photovotaic, solar heating, eolic voltaic.
Other sources, like tides, are still in the research stage with no applications.
This would create a surge in research with more efficient technology available at lower costs  and wider usage. The developing countries would find an economic interest in that and start manufacture such material, contributing to lower its cost.

The above is just wild speculation, but I feel that the agencies like IPCC are wasting time writing documents, whereas if the situation is really as they say, sensible actions which are not jeopardizing economies and jobs should be undertaken.

Do such documents exist? Realistic documents with realistic suggestions? I do not regard professor HAnsen's solution of building more nuclear power plants an advantageous one, since it would maybe decrease a big hazard to increase another big hazard.


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« Reply #10 on: Oct 20, 2015 06:20 pm »

http://news.yahoo.com/dalai-lama-says-climate-change-destroying-tibets-roof-063758979.html

Dalai Lama says climate change destroying Tibet's 'roof of the world'.
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« Reply #11 on: Oct 20, 2015 06:53 pm »

This physical planet will change constantly, I'm not convinced large changes are solely man's doing.
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« Reply #12 on: Oct 21, 2015 08:29 am »

This physical planet will change constantly, I'm not convinced large changes are solely man's doing.

i do not believe that the Dalai Lama thought that this was natural in origin but rather caused by human beings. Nor would any rational person-- believing the Dalai Lama-- say that it was changes due to natural occurrences.

Tibet's exiled leaders, including the Dalai Lama, said on Tuesday two-thirds of the glaciers in their mountain homeland may disappear by 2050 because of climate change and demanded a stake in international climate talks later this year.

The Tibetan plateau, which has the largest store of ice outside the North and South Pole, has experienced rising temperatures of 1.3 Celsius over the past five decades, three times the global average, the leadership said in a statement.

Tibet, with an average altitude of over 4,000 meters (13,125 ft) is particularly vulnerable to the impact of climate change. Warming is already melting glaciers that are the source of water in rivers that help support about 1.3 billion people.

"The Tibetan Plateau needs to be protected, not just for Tibetans but for the environmental health and sustainability of the entire world," the Dalai Lama, Tibet's exiled Buddhist leader, said.

"As vital as the Arctic and Antarctic, it is the Third Pole," he said in the statement issued from the Indian hill station of Dharamsala, where the Tibetan government-in-exile has been based since the Dalai Lama fled his homeland in 1959.

Close to 200 countries will meet in Paris in December to try to hammer out a deal to slow man-made climate change by aiming to keep temperatures below a ceiling of 2 degrees Celsius above pre-industrial levels.

World leaders are hoping for a successor to the Kyoto Protocol after 2009 climate talks in Copenhagen ended in disappointment due to differences between the United States and China.

Tibet's leaders said they want an effective climate change agreement and also want to have a say in the talks.

About 80 percent of the ice in Tibet has retreated in the past 50 years, according to the government-in-exile.

With the rapidly melting permafrost, 12,300 million tons of carbon could be released into the air, further exacerbating the problems of global warming, they said.
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« Reply #13 on: Oct 21, 2015 07:10 pm »

God controls it I thought. Man made? Who made man?
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« Reply #14 on: Oct 27, 2015 02:01 pm »

God controls it I thought. Man made? Who made man?

http://news.yahoo.com/too-hot-human-survival-170027470.html

Didn't God make us to have free choice make choices and determine our own destiny? Or should we exercise no free will and become a victim of circumstance? If God controls you why do anything? He controls you right? Let us see how much he controls. Don't do anything since he controls you. If you really believe that. Why do you make choices to do anything if God controls you? Who made man? What did he expect once we were made? No volition? No action? No decision? No choice?
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