Me and Steve were talking about meditation

[mccoy]

The Gurus i have followed have helped me immensely and people like Kriyananda and Osho i have found have some helpful thoughts.

Of course, false prophets must say something interesting to rise interest in people. What they do though is very often the opposite of the interesting, wise things they preach.
In Italy there used to be an adage about catholic priests: "Do as the priest says, not as the priest does".

Guys, I find such a dualism downright preposterous. Simply put, if you are not able or willing to do what you preach you should not preach at all.

The other possibility is that the priest who does not follow his preachings is a  conman. He preaches because he acquires power by preaching, then he uses such power to satisfy his greed for money, power, sex. Such was the case, as the facts suggest it, with Osho/rajhnees and Kryiananda/Walters.

[Jitendra Hy-do-u-no-us?]

The Gurus i have followed have helped me immensely and people like Kriyananda and Osho i have found have some helpful thoughts.

Of course, false prophets must say something interesting to rise interest in people. What they do though is very often the opposite of the interesting, wise things they preach.
In Italy there used to be an adage about catholic priests: "Do as the priest says, not as the priest does".

Guys, I find such a dualism downright preposterous. Simply put, if you are not able or willing to do what you preach you should not preach at all.

The other possibility is that the priest who does not follow his preachings is a  conman. He preaches because he acquires power by preaching, then he uses such power to satisfy his greed for money, power, sex. Such was the case, as the facts suggest it, with Osho/rajhnees and Kryiananda/Walters.

i believe most all business people use power to acquire what u r speaking of. This is a function of rajas. Osho/Rajhnees openly admitted that he was a man who had sex and to own and drive so many Rolls Royces it appears that he had some greed as well. He also had some great wisdom. So if a woman had sex with him she was a willing participant and since he openly drove in his cars with devotees all around they would have to be blind to not know that his cars were very expensive. i have never read where Kryinanada abhorred  sex and preached against it and i was not there to see him use power and abusively and that he was a greedy man. Again we must recognize that he too may have had 'lovers' that enjoyed every facet of a human relationship with him. i do enjoy his different perspective of Paramahansa Yogananda as i personally have a story about the life of Paramahansa Yogananda that was accepted as true but yet SRF  monks told me it probably would not be recorded in history. i do not expect people to be perfect to have an interest in them. My God; the Beatles had all kinds of affairs, drug and alcohol addictions. It did not stop me from listening to their music.

i do know that my religion instructor at Western Michigan University claimed that it is a well known fact that Paramahansa Yogananda was a womanizer and had mistresses. i was not there with him so how do i know? However he definitely has changed my life for the better. Many people claim that Jesus and Mary Magdalene were lovers. Again how do i know? ; i was not there and even if he did it would not take away from my awe of who he was and what he did. i have a personal friend who acknowledged that Yogi Bajan had women as lovers but that did not seem to dent her believing he was a spiritual teacher.

All i really know is what i do and have done in my life. As far as i know i do not preach or claim to be something i am not. Lord knows i have my imperfections as well. Yet i am working on them and i do believe i am a much better person then say 20 years ago. Part of this is because of the spirituality of people that are also imperfect. i am not in the business of debunking others and being real critical of their lifestyles. i am in the business of being critical of my own lifestyle and improving  myself. Many imperfect people have helped in this process.

[mccoy]

Steve, I admire your appreciation for wise things regardless of their source.
I am far more biased. If a thing is wise of course it remains wise, but if it has been pronounced by Rajneesh or Kryiananda, then I become suspicious.
For example, swami K, who I happen to know, mixed truth and lies. How can I know if that specific thing is true or false? I read some books of Kryiananda where he described things and made prophecies about himself and events. The prophecies failed miserably. The things he described turned out to be utterly false.
So, was Hitler Alexander the great in a previous incarnation, or Stalin Gengis Khan? Maybe so, but since swami K told it, tht remains very uncertain, so much uncertain that I'll dismiss that fact as totally unfounded. Unless some SRF monks can confirm it.

I appreciate Rajneesh' honesty. But to tell the truth, I was nonplussed when I read a book of him extolling celibacy, then another book saying the opposite. This is a way to confound devotees. His devotees actually were not spiritual devotees. His devotees were members of a cult with satanic nuances. he attracted people with satanic tendencies, and as far as I know it, he was poisoned by his same 'loyal' secretary (whom he surely bedded) who ran out with his money.
Bottom line, his writings are henceforth tainted by satanic suggestions. I read his books in the past, I burned them afterwards, as I burned all the books by swami K that I possessed.

[mccoy]

i do know that my religion instructor at Western Michigan University claimed that it is a well known fact that Paramahansa Yogananda was a womanizer and had mistresses. i was not there with him so how do i know? However he definitely has changed my life for the better. Many people claim that Jesus and Mary Magdalene were lovers. Again how do i know? ; i was not there and even if he did it would not take away from my awe of who he was and what he did. i have a personal friend who acknowledged that Yogi Bajan had women as lovers but that did not seem to dent her believing he was a spiritual teacher.

It is a well known fact.... But where is the hard evidence? Is your former instructor reliable? Or did he speak from biased grapevine info?

I know everything about some alleged escapades by Yogananda, alleged lover of Tara Mata and father of a girl from her, alleged father of Ben Erskine, alleged owner of a personal harem in M. Washington, which made Brahmachari Nerode sue him at the LA court.

None of the above was proved though. Also, I would believe that Sri Yukteswar was not so much of a prophet had he missed the facts only because he was living in India.

Also, Yogananda would have been deserted by the likes of Daya Mata and Saint Lynn, who practice strict celibacy and would never have tolerated a guru with such weaknesses.

[Jitendra Hy-do-u-no-us?]

i do know that my religion instructor at Western Michigan University claimed that it is a well known fact that Paramahansa Yogananda was a womanizer and had mistresses. i was not there with him so how do i know? However he definitely has changed my life for the better. Many people claim that Jesus and Mary Magdalene were lovers. Again how do i know? ; i was not there and even if he did it would not take away from my awe of who he was and what he did. i have a personal friend who acknowledged that Yogi Bajan had women as lovers but that did not seem to dent her believing he was a spiritual teacher.

It is a well known fact.... But where is the hard evidence? Is your former instructor reliable? Or did he speak from biased grapevine info?

I know everything about some alleged escapades by Yogananda, alleged lover of Tara Mata and father of a girl from her, alleged father of Ben Erskine, alleged owner of a personal harem in M. Washington, which made Brahmachari Nerode sue him at the LA court.

None of the above was proved though. Also, I would believe that Sri Yukteswar was not so much of a prophet had he missed the facts only because he was living in India.

Also, Yogananda would have been deserted by the likes of Daya Mata and Saint Lynn, who practice strict celibacy and would never have tolerated a guru with such weaknesses.

You make me smile mccoy. What kind of hard evidence can u give for some one who is no longer living? You present things like this: B should follow A since it is true that we know that Saint Lynn was a celibate and that Daya Mata would not accept such behavior. St. Lynn was married to someone who did not look fondly on SRF. Do u know that she accepted a life of no sex with him as well? Were u there to witness their lives? When i was in California i found out that even Brothers left the order because of sexual behavior. One of whom i respected very much. He was the most inspirational monk i had ever met. i have never been close to Kriyananda or Osho. But you can make scapegoats out of anyone and claim things such as the devil made him do it. But the fact remains Kriyananda was chosen by Yogananda and he was put in a high position of SRF. To put all the blame on Kriyananda for decisions by others who were suppose to have the wisdom and intuition to know better is a rather shoddy way of passing the buck. i see it much differently: Judas was very spiritually developed; Otherwise Jesus would not have chosen him as a disciple. There r many others who were spiritually developed who like us have made mistakes along the way. If it were not for Paramahansa Yogananda and decisions made by the highest board at SRF Kriyananda would have never been able to have the fame he had when leaving SRF to write such things and attract such crowds and develop such a following. We can make scapegoats out of others and turn them into something evil. But let us look back and see who let such power be given to such a person in the first place.

Believe me i defended Paramahansa Yogananda when i talked to Professor Nancy Falk who was head of the religion department at the time and she just laughed at me as though i was naive. i presented views like u did about Daya Mata. As you know some devotees will willingly follow the rules of others and not expect those 'above' such rules to have to follow them. To her (Nancy Falk) i was following just another religious cult. But i may add this: It is not a prerequisite of intelligence to have wisdom as well. That is something i learned over and over in college.

Steve, I admire your appreciation for wise things regardless of their source.
I am far more biased. If a thing is wise of course it remains wise, but if it has been pronounced by Rajneesh or Kryiananda, then I become suspicious.

So, was Hitler Alexander the great in a previous incarnation, or Stalin Gengis Khan? Maybe so, but since swami K told it, tht remains very uncertain, so much uncertain that I'll dismiss that fact as totally unfounded. Unless some SRF monks can confirm it.

Bottom line, his writings are henceforth tainted by satanic suggestions. I read his books in the past, I burned them afterwards, as I burned all the books by swami K that I possessed.

They couldn't even agree about what Paramahansa Yogananda said himself at SRF. i remember distinctly asking Brother Bhaktananda about Paramahansa Yogananda saying he was Shakespeare in a previous life. He said "That is what the Master said" and then hearing Daya Mata refuting that claim.

[mccoy]

....What kind of hard evidence can u give for some one who is no longer living?

Well then you confirm my thesis that professor's Falks allegations were based on rumours. Are we being naive in not believing her allegations or is she being naive in believing the allegations of Yogananda's enemies? Naivetè can often be turned the other way around. This appears to be one of those cases.

But the fact remains Kriyananda was chosen by Yogananda and he was put in a high position of SRF. To put all the blame on Kriyananda for decisions by others who were suppose to have the wisdom and intuition to know better is a rather shoddy way of passing the buck. i see it much differently: Judas was very spiritually developed; Otherwise Jesus would not have chosen him as a disciple. There r many others who were spiritually developed who like us have made mistakes along the way. If it were not for Paramahansa Yogananda and decisions made by the highest board at SRF Kriyananda would have never been able to have the fame he had when leaving SRF to write such things and attract such crowds and develop such a following. We can make scapegoats out of others and turn them into something evil. But let us look back and see who let such power be given to such a person in the first place

Steve, it is so evident that Yogananda's decision was influenced by Satan himself and his discrimination when choosing D. Walters as a disciple was not working. We have an example of an avatar who can take huge blunders and this in a way is a consolation to us lowly mortals.
Also, some people feign humbleness and meekness until they obtain some power exercising a devilish cunning, then they start behaving in their own crazy ways, influenced by ego and hubris. This is exactly what happened and why Tara Mata did such an enormous mistake in having DW nominated vice-president. As soon as DW got teh position, he started to feel the real boss if SRF (yes, women are lesser beings good to little beyonfd satisfying men's material desires, so Daya Mata could not really be her superior). Swami K ended up behaving like a parasite of Yogananda's fame and taking advantage of his position. I read his book where he recounts of his dismissal from SRF and that's a total fake, where all events are distorted. The real truth was known many years later, in a court of justice.
It is not that S K made some mistakes on the way, more exactly he badly betrayed his guru, he took advantage of his position as a self-proclaimed spiritual teacher to have sex with young female devotees and nuns, filled his books with lies, committed fraud with malice, all with an outward mask of bonhomie and friendliness.
A professional conman. We cannot call these 'small mistakes'.

Believe me i defended Paramahansa Yogananda when i talked to Professor Nancy Falk who was head of the religion department at the time and she just laughed at me as though i was naive. i presented views like u did about Daya Mata. As you know some devotees will willingly follow the rules of others and not expect those 'above' such rules to have to follow them. To her (Nancy Falk) i was following just another religious cult. But i may add this: It is not a prerequisite of intelligence to have wisdom as well. That is something i learned over and over in college.

Again, I may be called naive if I refuse to believe something in the face of hard evidence. I find prof. Falks' attitude very biased. Yogananda passed the DNA test on Ben Erskine case, was found not guilty in the trial initiated by Nerode (an harem in Mt. Washington), speaking of the cases I know. Tara Mata's daughter (whose father some people say was Yogananda) does not resemble Yogananda at all.
So why should I believe the mere words of an unknown professor of the Michigan university in Kalamazoo? Has she been so naive to be influenced by the internet fora against Yogananda? She would be much more honest in saying that hers is but a personal opinion, unproved and unprovable.

They couldn't even agree about what Paramahansa Yogananda said himself at SRF. i remember distinctly asking Brother Bhaktananda about Paramahansa Yogananda saying he was Shakespeare in a previous life. He said "That is what the Master said" and then hearing Daya Mata refuting that claim.

Steve, those disagreements between spiritual giants are really unfortunate. Besides, it shows that any references to previous lives are utterly unreliable.
You can imagine if I can believe Kryiananda who said Stalin was Gengis Khan and Hitler Alexander the Great.

[Jitendra Hy-do-u-no-us?]

What fascinates me is how our minds try to get around such things and make sense of them. Because of our background, environment and karma we come to different conclusions. i can only gain appreciation at the many views that are out there including yours mccoy. There is so much more that could come out of this conversation. i suppose when it seems relevant to our unfolding awareness we will add more. i am also grateful to Brock for having an interest enough to start this thread because of those times we have enjoyed friendship in our conversations.

[Jitendra Hy-do-u-no-us?]

mccoy

While what u r saying may be true and sometimes we do have to contend with negative thought forms: i find the power of thought so strong that dwelling on such matters can take our own consciousness downward. Do u find this true of yourself as well? There r times we need to distinguish truth from fiction and understand various claims that others make that seem to contradict our own understanding. At times we just walk away from energies that seem to have complicated cross currents that act as a mire to dilute the larger picture. Putting too much judgement into the picture pulls us into the vibration of the energies of the people that we may find differences with.

[mccoy]

Steve, you are right, however, I do not give importance at all nor waste my time judge DW who is such an insignificant, lowly, vile, fake and miserable being, a pure excuse of a failed devotee..... Ehm. sorry, LOL!!!

[Jitendra Hy-do-u-no-us?]

Steve, you are right, however, I do not give importance at all nor waste my time judge DW who is such an insignificant, lowly, vile, fake and miserable being, a pure excuse of a failed devotee..... Ehm. sorry, LOL!!

Well, my sense of humor has also been conveniently ignored also. So in that sense we mirror each other. Often humor has some truth found in it. I think that is y people get uncomfortable with it when we unload it strategically.

[SI]

Well, my sense of humor has also been conveniently ignored also.

It's all in the delivery.

[ding dong]

Conveying humor over the internet via text, forums, and boards can be tricky.

[Jitendra Hy-do-u-no-us?]

Conveying humor over the internet via text, forums, and boards can be tricky.

Yes 👍I have found that there r some people who have had no idea 💡 that I was being humorous about myself and my relationship with them. There have been those who cannot laugh too easily at themselves or with others. It actually can turn out quite tragic. It is sad 😢 in the sense that I really have found that God has quite a sense of humor about this life and us. Losing that sense of humor and taking ourselves and relationships too seriously also results in losing some of that lightness and spontaneity that develops as we get beyond ourselves and see 👀 our roles in this life as just actors in an unrehearsed stage drama with many humorous parts.

When we get too serious we can even manifest mental illness. We start seeing a very dark picture painted all around us and our perspective of life becomes so warped that there are many among us who can no longer function socially with any degree of happiness and are able to find little pleasure in social contact becoming like hermits in a dark novel.