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Iraq


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Steve Hydonus
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« on: Jul 10, 2016 05:00 am »

https://www.yahoo.com/news/iraq-war-illegal-says-blairs-former-deputy-215450070.html?nhp=1
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« Reply #1 on: Jul 10, 2016 01:56 pm »

In my view the decision to go to war against Saddam was justified (we have discussed many times why), whereas the strategy was short-sighted and ended up a failure. Evidently westerners have not the faintest idea of the complex relationships, plots and power struggles within the ethnic or religious groups out there. America has been fooled by one of these groups. They should have made Irak the 51st state of America with an American governor and a powerful and inexorable, ruthless army and police force. Sometimes being to good & friendly does not pay. We are speaking about people like the supporters of the IS.

America, if she wanted to liberate Irak, should have ruled more firmly than the dictator himself. otherwise she should have renounced the invasion.

Blair can always say he didn't have hindsight. His objection that Saddam was a global danger sounds reasonable. The report against him was presented by a member of the house of lords. It will have to be discussed by both houses I believe before a final decision will be taken.
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Steve Hydonus
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« Reply #2 on: Jul 11, 2016 05:59 am »

Let us look further into the matter; Bush lied about WMD's and there were many other lies hyped up by his administration to promote a war for the wealthy and to support wealthy business. Let us not forget  the Bush's and the Cheney's had their investment in oil  and protection of their businesses (halliburton to name the most prominent one) in that part of the world. The common person in the United States lost and they fought a war for the interests of the wealthy. We learned nothing from Viet Nam whose people now recognize us as the great bully they beat.

http://www.vox.com/2016/7/9/12123022/george-w-bush-lies-iraq-war

Mccoy americans r not dictators. We r not a bunch of thugs that like having power over others. What benefit would we have in ruling these unruly people. We would have nothing but expenses and turmoil. No your solution is untenable as it proved to b in Viet Nam. These people would not be happy with WalMart and America's culture forced on them.Their would be no end to violence, blood and bombings in Iraq if we were in control. My God we have enough violence in our own cites. It is never ending. Would we buckle down under foreign rule? No we would not. They r no different.
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« Reply #3 on: Jul 12, 2016 11:02 am »

Let us look further into the matter; Bush lied about WMD's and there were many other lies hyped up by his administration to promote a war for the wealthy and to support wealthy business. Let us not forget  the Bush's and the Cheney's had their investment in oil  and protection of their businesses (halliburton to name the most prominent one) in that part of the world. The common person in the United States lost and they fought a war for the interests of the wealthy. We learned nothing from Viet Nam whose people now recognize us as the great bully they beat.

Steve, where is the news? We all know politicians lie. It's in the order of things. To change one sentence of the article, my view on the issue is such:

The failure of Iraq was a case of more or less well-meaning but incompetent policymakers rushing into what they should’ve known would be a disaster.
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« Reply #4 on: Jul 12, 2016 11:03 am »

Mccoy americans r not dictators. We r not a bunch of thugs that like having power over others. What benefit would we have in ruling these unruly people. We would have nothing but expenses and turmoil. No your solution is untenable as it proved to b in Viet Nam. These people would not be happy with WalMart and America's culture forced on them.Their would be no end to violence, blood and bombings in Iraq if we were in control. My God we have enough violence in our own cites. It is never ending. Would we buckle down under foreign rule? No we would not. They r no different.

Then the invasion of Irak could never have been a viable choice
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Steve Hydonus
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« Reply #5 on: Jul 12, 2016 02:32 pm »

Mccoy americans r not dictators. We r not a bunch of thugs that like having power over others. What benefit would we have in ruling these unruly people. We would have nothing but expenses and turmoil. No your solution is untenable as it proved to b in Viet Nam. These people would not be happy with WalMart and America's culture forced on them.Their would be no end to violence, blood and bombings in Iraq if we were in control. My God we have enough violence in our own cites. It is never ending. Would we buckle down under foreign rule? No we would not. They r no different.

Then the invasion of Irak could never have been a viable choice

Thanks McCoy we were supposed to have made the world 🌎 safer. I just hope that we can help those people gain democracy and they will no longer face another dictator or another issis. We have to go from here and now...that's all we can do. The past was determined by fate and karma larger then we can understand. U just can't demolish a country and then say good luck. We r facing the price of war. When will we ever learn. Every nation should recognize the karma and aftermath of war. We may look at the world thru different eyes when we r able to do this.
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« Reply #6 on: Jul 14, 2016 11:19 pm »

.... The past was determined by fate and karma larger then we can understand. ....

Steve, that rings very true...
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« Reply #7 on: Jul 15, 2016 02:50 am »

.... The past was determined by fate and karma larger then we can understand. ....

Steve, that rings very true...

Yea it is like this big hand of fate came over our nation. i remember all the people waving flags and cheering the soldiers on while i yelled thru the crowds "U have no idea what you are getting yourself into. Go home. Refuse to fight!" But the hand of fate moved inexorably on and now fate has come to your countries doorsteps as well. i wonder if there is not some resentment in Italy towards the U.S. for all this?
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« Reply #8 on: Jul 16, 2016 10:34 pm »

... i wonder if there is not some resentment in Italy towards the U.S. for all this?

The left-wingers usually will debase the USA no matter what. Nothing good can come out of America. Never.
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« Reply #9 on: Jul 16, 2016 11:47 pm »

... i wonder if there is not some resentment in Italy towards the U.S. for all this?

The left-wingers usually will debase the USA no matter what. Nothing good can come out of America. Never.

Thanks for your thoughts mccoy. They leave me with rather ambivalent thoughts. Since i have never been to your country i cannot know how people react and behave. Here in the States we find people with many ambiguous views. It is not so easy to divide people into left and right and deduce their concern or love for other countries or their own based on such artificial dividers. i have very left wing views on many things and many rights wing views on other things. How do u put that all together? We also have politicians in our country who have crossed from one political party to another. As a spiritual being i find it important to find the best in ourselves while being open to criticism and improvement. But to flaunt the best we have seems rather arrogant to me. It is better to be on the safe side and think of all the improvements we could make both personally and as a country. We are in a process of growth and understanding. We become more and more aware of this as we gain insight into ourselves.
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« Reply #10 on: Jul 17, 2016 12:23 am »

Steve, yes, the 'left wingers' is too much of an unaccurate definition. I would say, there is a group of biased individuals here, who are still under the influence of the propaganda of the former Soviet Union. Rather than left wingers they are or were followers of teh Soviet communism philosophy. Another set, less numerous, are or were followers of the policy of Mao Tse Tung. When the world was split in two, America and Soviet Union, these guys criticized america whatever she did, whereas praise Russia whatever she did. When Russia invaded Poland with their tanks, they said it was a duty because the counter-revolutionaries were jeopardizing the spread of communism.
Whenever America engaged herself in a war, that was a manifestation of pure imperialism.

So much so for a unbiased and unprejudiced opinion.

Right now some people still reason like that, although they are often those who were the supporters of Soviet Union.

Today, especially after the presidency of Obama, I have a feeling that some bias is maybe dissipating.

 
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« Reply #11 on: Jul 17, 2016 01:44 am »

Steve, yes, the 'left wingers' is too much of an unaccurate definition. I would say, there is a group of biased individuals here, who are still under the influence of the propaganda of the former Soviet Union. Rather than left wingers they are or were followers of teh Soviet communism philosophy. Another set, less numerous, are or were followers of the policy of Mao Tse Tung. When the world was split in two, America and Soviet Union, these guys criticized america whatever she did, whereas praise Russia whatever she did. When Russia invaded Poland with their tanks, they said it was a duty because the counter-revolutionaries were jeopardizing the spread of communism.
Whenever America engaged herself in a war, that was a manifestation of pure imperialism.

So much so for a unbiased and unprejudiced opinion.

Right now some people still reason like that, although they are often those who were the supporters of Soviet Union.

Today, especially after the presidency of Obama, I have a feeling that some bias is maybe dissipating.

Thank- You for sharing. There is much to gain by seeing thru the eyes of others. i thought this might help us on the subject. Paramahansa Yogananda wrote:

"A man may be considered a good citizen of one country, but his mode of living may not be in accord with the ideals of peace and good  will to all men. Being a good citizen of one country is not sufficient, although it too is necessary. True values can only be discovered by laying aside all  personal, communal, national, and racial prejudices, habits of thought etc."
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