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What Marx was right about


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ding dong
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« on: Dec 04, 2016 07:26 pm »

This 10 minute video hits the main criticisms which Marx made against capitalism.



Thoughts?
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« Reply #1 on: Dec 05, 2016 07:19 am »

This 10 minute video hits the main criticisms which Marx made against capitalism.



Thoughts?

Thank You for a very informative video. This is info that requires some thought before responding.
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« Reply #2 on: Dec 06, 2016 06:42 pm »

This 10 minute video hits the main criticisms which Marx made against capitalism.


Thoughts?

I think it is good to have people who can identify some of the illusions our culture faces.Someone who can clarify the misconceptions we live by and the indoctrination we have been following. Marx is able to see thru much of the brainwashing  of our culture norms. It is a call to wake up and recognize what we have accepted as true has only been handed down to us by a lot of greedy people who destroyed the culture that was once here and built up an industrial complex that subordinates human and spiritual needs with material expansion and destruction to both our environment and basic human needs.

Thanks Brock. I do not accept it as gospel but his views are eye openers. It's something to listen to again!
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« Reply #3 on: Dec 06, 2016 07:10 pm »

Thanks Steve for taking the time to watch it and make some comments. It is easy to see how Marxist ideas captured the hearts and minds so many, despite the propaganda about it you hear on TV.

Now, I am going to start my own dictatorship called

Jesus Brock's Democratic Republic of Kool-Aid Commune
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« Reply #4 on: Dec 07, 2016 03:40 pm »

Pease note, although realistic and true from teh standpoint of social conditions, the Marxist model was essentially a materialistic one, or at least has been construed as such.

"Religion is the opium of people". It may mean that people let themselves be blunted by religious dogma, or that religion acts as a drug to blunt the people's congitive faculties.

The supporters of this theory have opted for the latter negative connotation, hence the Mrxist movement has invetibaly carried a strong materialistic backgound.

In a few words, Marxism shows as something apparently sensible and socially useful may degenerate in a monstrous construct (the State is the anthill which rules, people are but ants which must live for the State, there is no GOD, your GOD will be STALIN/MAO TSE TUNG/POLPOT  and so on).
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« Reply #5 on: Dec 08, 2016 03:37 am »

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marxism_and_religion

"The criticism of religion disillusions man, so that he will think, act, and fashion his reality like a man who has discarded his illusions and regained his senses, so that he will move around himself as his own true Sun. Religion is only the illusory Sun which revolves around man as long as he does not revolve around himself."[3]

Since as yogis we have experiences beyond the senses Karl Marx does not have an understanding of the purpose of our religion and spirituality. So in this sense I would agree with mccoy that Marxism has a materialistic basis. Yet in other theories Marxism has a social basis much like the teachings of Jesus Christ. No where do I see Marx advocating a supression of the masses that we have seen in many communist nations in the last two hundred years. But then again I do not see socialism as the same as communism. Perhaps it would be helpful to have an understanding of communism which is quite different then socialism.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Communism



In a few words, Marxism shows as something apparently sensible and socially useful may degenerate in a monstrous construct (the State is the anthill which rules, people are but ants which must live for the State, there is no GOD, your GOD will be STALIN/MAO TSE TUNG/POLPOT  and so on).

Mccoy isn't what your describing here communism at its worst? No where in Marx's philosophy do I see the idea to make the state and it's leaders into some kind of God. On the contrary I think Karl Marx warned againt this kind of religious fervor that is used to justify the supression of the masses. This can be seen in both capitalistic and communistic systems.

Most likely we see the ideas of Marx being implemented in the Scandinavian countries and to a lesser extent in Europe. In the United States we have quite the opposite; "A monstrous construct (the State is the anthill which rules, people are but ants which must live for the State" as you put it but here we have just such a government today: the state ran by the richest individuals who continue to control all the means of production and promote an illusory system to justify owning over 95 per cent of the wealth by less then one per cent of the people which is what Karl Marx predicted would happen in a capitalistic government we see in the United States. We have elected just such a government this last national election that promotes the supression of the masses and the rulership of a wealthy few with huge tax breaks for the wealthy to perpetuate such a system.

In one case you have communism justifying the use of communism for its implementation in another you have fascism using capitalism and free enterprise as its instruments. Both systems degenerating into socially unacceptable governments. Neither free enterprise or socialism having this as a plan and result. My analysis is this; no system will work smoothly as long as selfishness, egotism and self-centeredness are present.






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« Reply #6 on: Dec 08, 2016 08:14 pm »

Steve, yes, Marxism has degenerated under those dictators, of course it was not a cruel philosophy, just an idea with surely a positive nuance. Is there an example where Marxism has been successfull? Probably not. Even China, with her variation of Marxism initiated by Mao Tse Tung, turned back to capitalism. Sweden is applying socialism, that is, the property is private but the state makes things such that there is an even distribution of wealth.
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« Reply #7 on: Dec 08, 2016 09:37 pm »

Steve, yes, Marxism has degenerated under those dictators, of course it was not a cruel philosophy, just an idea with surely a positive nuance. Is there an example where Marxism has been successfull? Probably not. Even China, with her variation of Marxism initiated by Mao Tse Tung, turned back to capitalism. Sweden is applying socialism, that is, the property is private but the state makes things such that there is an even distribution of wealth.

You could very easily ask the same question of Capitalism. Where has it been successful? Not the United States where over 95 percent of the wealth is in the hands of less then one percent of the people and people are begging on street corners in all the major cities, one of the largest prison population per capita, health care is threatened to be taken away by a fascist government and the rich will again be given huge tax breaks by the current administration voted in.
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« Reply #8 on: Dec 09, 2016 08:42 pm »

Sorry I haven't found time to engage with this thread. For now, let me upvote Steve's post above.  You will often hear people in casual conversation take this line, "But nothing else works."

Well, define "works". Capitalism might work quite well for some but it sure is a raw deal for a lot of others.

Have to run for now.
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« Reply #9 on: Dec 10, 2016 12:51 am »

Sorry I haven't found time to engage with this thread. For now, let me upvote Steve's post above.  You will often hear people in casual conversation take this line, "But nothing else works."

Well, define "works". Capitalism might work quite well for some but it sure is a raw deal for a lot of others.

Have to run for now.

My immediate response to this is that until people see other souls around them and see everything as an emanation of the divine they will feel that they are somehow privileged to have much more. It is a sense of entitlement. Most people that have this mindset are so hopelessly lost that there is literally no hope for enlightenment or spiritual progress this lifetime. Take for instance Donald Trump. There is so much ego, self centeredness and thin skinned behavior that their would be no way to see him beyond his gold adorned armchairs, fixtures and casinos and lewd remarks. It would be much more fortunate to have less materially speaking and a developed spiritual life. So capitalism works for him only as a vehicle of spiritual ignorance. It is sad to have such a leader of the 'free world' when this is an example of leadership. Look to a leader like Mahatma Gandhi and the contrast is just overwhelming. 

For someone else the free enterprise system is a vehicle to help others and improve their own standard of living. I have seen it in many wealthy people who have helped saints and masters spread their message and others with many other worthy causes for humanity. However in a man like Donald Trump we see someone who boasts about his material wealth and has used it for his own self-aggrandizement and desires. We have only to look to the massive edifaces that he lives in and the wealth he surrounds himself with, while in the process the environment has been destroyed and will be destroyed with gambling holes and paved parking lots. Trump will eventually cause destruction by a misguided idea of progress with mother nature herself giving the verdict-with global warming-because of an ignorant view of the harm human beings are doing to their environment.  At the same time his brothers and sisters are begging for food on street corners we see a hopeless image of a leader for the people of the world to look up too. Is this what we want to promote and develop in our own character? This is the kind of leader that Rome looked up to with Coligula and Nero. This represents a society in decay.
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« Reply #10 on: Dec 12, 2016 08:26 am »

You could very easily ask the same question of Capitalism. Where has it been successful? Not the United States where over 95 percent of the wealth is in the hands of less then one percent of the people and people are begging on street corners in all the major cities, one of the largest prison population per capita, health care is threatened to be taken away by a fascist government and the rich will again be given huge tax breaks by the current administration voted in.

How not to agree? Yet Marxism, which is the original topic of this thread, as it has been applied so far in communist countries, has been a massive failure.
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« Reply #11 on: Dec 12, 2016 08:52 am »

You could very easily ask the same question of Capitalism. Where has it been successful? Not the United States where over 95 percent of the wealth is in the hands of less then one percent of the people and people are begging on street corners in all the major cities, one of the largest prison population per capita, health care is threatened to be taken away by a fascist government and the rich will again be given huge tax breaks by the current administration voted in.

How not to agree? Yet Marxism, which is the original topic of this thread, as it has been applied so far in communist countries, has been a massive failure.

Marxism is not synonymous with communism nor is capitalism synonymous with free enterprise. But people would like you to believe this so they can promote their own agendas. We find Marxist ideas working very well with free enterprise in some of the Scandinavian nations. Marxist ideas and parties help people socially in Europe as well. They could help in the U.S. as well if it wasn't for the capitalism that is used to brainwash the masses by slurring Marxism as communism.

Let us not confuse the two. Marx was not a communist as were Stalin and Mao. He did not support the supression of the masses nor using a system to mask doing so. Today in China we have a so called communist system which masks a very capitalistic lifestyle.  Communism is responsible for brutality as are right wing capitalists throughout the world which capitalism has supported. But even communism and right wing capitalism are not inherently  wrong. It is just the implementation of these political philosophies that has failed. Many people like to conveniently peg people into certain categories. This is ideology and mindsets. Let us look beyond such dogmatic linguistics and take the best from several philosophies. My view is that this would be much better than being pigeonholed. One can not help but make contrasts. I believe that the original intention of the article is to see some of the benefits of Marxism and to see it's ability to see thru  some of the brainwashing Americans have been put thru. It is difficult to do this without making contrasts which are a hallmark of marixist ideas; a function of critical thinking. In fact neo-marxists embraced the idea of critical theory which came after the death of Karl Marx. The brutality of modern day communism as seen in China and North Korea would never be accepted by critical thinkers and Karl Marx. His philosophy did not embrace such class structure we now see in those countries.
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