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Bowl of Saki Discussion


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Author Topic: Bowl of Saki Discussion  (Read 58 times)
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« on: Feb 24, 2017 08:14 pm »

Todays drink has me a little unsure. I don't know if I necessarily agree, Mr. Khan says when we observe the pleasure and displeasure in man we know the pleasures and displeasures of God. Although I can agree to an extent with this statement, I also find myself questioning.

Commentary by Pir-o-Murshid Inayat Khan

The religion of the Sufi is the religion of the heart. The principal moral of the Sufi is to consider the heart of others, so that in the pleasure and displeasure of his fellow-man he sees the pleasure and displeasure of God.

   ~~~ "Complete Works, Original Texts, Feb 26, 1924", by Hazrat Inayat Khan

https://wahiduddin.net/saki/saki_date.php

Is man not flawed? Right now I am being made an enemy by a coworker over something that never happened. I am also having to block others on my phone in order to promote well being. I can't be worried with how these people feel because worrying or attempting to communicate seems to make matters worse.

Jeong Kwan, a buddhist monk mentioned here just recently says her freedom comes from being alone. I don't think being a crowd pleaser will lead to liberation or true happiness.
Do you have any thoughts on the matter?
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« Reply #1 on: Feb 25, 2017 05:48 am »

I think when we comment on what other people are going thru we often do know. How can we know what they have gone thru? So we are only giving a very subjective opinion.
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« Reply #2 on: Feb 25, 2017 06:35 am »

And your opinion is ... ? Smiley
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« Reply #3 on: Feb 25, 2017 08:41 pm »

And your opinion is ... ? Smiley

It is all about going within to find true happiness. We learn from other people and we receive spiritual blessings by helping them but they cannot give us enlightenment unless they are avatars. Most of our spiritual path must be accomplished alone. An avatar will not even be able to help us without inner exploration. This is a law of the cosmos.

Todays drink has me a little unsure. I don't know if I necessarily agree, Mr. Khan says when we observe the pleasure and displeasure in man we know the pleasures and displeasures of God. Although I can agree to an extent with this statement, I also find myself questioning.

Commentary by Pir-o-Murshid Inayat Khan

The religion of the Sufi is the religion of the heart. The principal moral of the Sufi is to consider the heart of others, so that in the pleasure and displeasure of his fellow-man he sees the pleasure and displeasure of God.

   ~~~ "Complete Works, Original Texts, Feb 26, 1924", by Hazrat Inayat Khan

https://wahiduddin.net/saki/saki_date.php


Thru the mirror of others we are able to see our own flaws and heroism.
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« Reply #4 on: Feb 26, 2017 05:41 am »

Todays drink has me a little unsure. I don't know if I necessarily agree, Mr. Khan says when we observe the pleasure and displeasure in man we know the pleasures and displeasures of God. Although I can agree to an extent with this statement, I also find myself questioning.

Commentary by Pir-o-Murshid Inayat Khan

The religion of the Sufi is the religion of the heart. The principal moral of the Sufi is to consider the heart of others, so that in the pleasure and displeasure of his fellow-man he sees the pleasure and displeasure of God.

   ~~~ "Complete Works, Original Texts, Feb 26, 1924", by Hazrat Inayat Khan

https://wahiduddin.net/saki/saki_date.php

Is man not flawed? Right now I am being made an enemy by a coworker over something that never happened. I am also having to block others on my phone in order to promote well being. I can't be worried with how these people feel because worrying or attempting to communicate seems to make matters worse.

Jeong Kwan, a buddhist monk mentioned here just recently says her freedom comes from being alone. I don't think being a crowd pleaser will lead to liberation or true happiness.
Do you have any thoughts on the matter?


Many times in life we may be reaping the harvest of distant past karma. Through this karma God can show us his pleasure or displeasure but we may not remember these deeds we did so it may be difficult to assertain where this pleasure or displeasure originated. The point is to endure what ever we must with calmness and kindness so that we may be able to recognize the kindness and pleasure we have given others who now return it to us. In the process we will be more and more in tune with the divine plan and thus gain our own pleasure and find our displeasure decreasing.
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« Reply #5 on: Feb 27, 2017 08:00 pm »

I have no interest in my past lives. I have found your words reassuring though, that is, going within to find true happiness. My original inquiry was to imply that man is flawed so how can one know the displeasure of God by considering the heart of man? We are flawed, misguided and sometimes just wrong. I think now though in recognizing God in the hearts of man and living in this awareness you are experiencing a greater Truth where falsehoods fall away in lieu of it. I think at this stage of awareness when someone wrongs you or does something that is flawed, you don't equate it as Gods displeasure. So I think even my original inquiry was looked at from a limited scope...

On a personal note, I am learning to brush aside my coworkers cold shoulder since her accusations are derived from something that never happened. We were once friends which was the reason of my initial upset. I must simply keep my distance from the crazy, if an amends is made my tone will be more parental and distant in the future. I've also unblocked the people I've had once blocked on my phone... I would never want to be blocked but if I am I will learn not to care since my happiness should not come from these peoples approval or disapproval.

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« Reply #6 on: May 10, 2017 04:35 am »


Many times in life we may be reaping the harvest of distant past karma. Through this karma God can show us his pleasure or displeasure but we may not remember these deeds we did so it may be difficult to assertain where this pleasure or displeasure originated. The point is to endure what ever we must with calmness and kindness so that we may be able to recognize the kindness and pleasure we have given others who now return it to us. In the process we will be more and more in tune with the divine plan and thus gain our own pleasure and find our displeasure decreasing.


Steve, having more time to myself I feel like I'm able to better understand what you're saying here and it's spot on with my current circumstance.

I notice in pursuit of this healthier, mindful being there is definitely a sense of fulfillment and the 'displeasure' seems to be decreasing.
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« Reply #7 on: May 25, 2017 08:54 pm »

Discussion is for those who say, "What I say is right, and what you say is wrong." A sage never says such a thing hence, there is no discussion.

People discuss dogmas, beliefs, and moral principles, as they know them. But there comes a time in a man's life when he has touched truth of which he cannot speak in words; and at that time all dispute, discussion, argument ends.


What great thoughts and attitudes! Just reach this experience for short time periods then find myself part of the world again; it's challenging differences of opinion.

I wonder; is it not possible to discuss without saying or expressing 'what I say is rite and what you say is wrong?'
It is possible to learn from one another. Is it not?
Hi Steve. Probably so.  Smiley
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« Reply #8 on: Jun 04, 2017 09:37 pm »

Thinking back on the Saki posted earlier,
Quote
Self-control is the most necessary thing to be learned; a person may have great spirituality, illumination and piety, but in the absence of self-control this is nothing. Self-control also is the way of happiness and peace. ... No thought or feeling should arise without our will. When we have gained mastery over the self, we have mastery over all things. ... Self-control is an attribute which distinguishes man from the animal; both have their appetites and passions, but it is man alone who can control them.

   from  http://wahiduddin.net/mv2/VIII/VIII_1_14.htm
I wonder if it's necessary to test yourself in life and what happens when you fail? I wonder what Inayat Khan would say if we changethe rules to the test we set up for ourselves, after obtaining new insight... ?
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« Reply #9 on: Jun 06, 2017 06:58 pm »

We will be tested plenty without we ourselves setting up tests. I have found that the most important part of spiritual life is to control our reactions and when to know that we must act. Having the wisdom to know when to act a when not to act and to be in control of our own passions and emotions is at the top of the list of spiritual accomplishments.
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« Reply #10 on: Jun 06, 2017 09:04 pm »

Thanks Steve. I think you're right. I also think it is important to test yourself sometimes, having the foresight that although what you're doing may seem pleasing you know the consequences later outweigh the reward. Cultivating this sense of discipline, on top of your meditation, may give you the will power and/or the wisdom to act accordingly to what you're describing above.
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« Reply #11 on: Jun 20, 2017 04:26 am »

Commentary by Pir-o-Murshid Inayat Khan

With regard to trusting people, a person may think, 'Is it right to believe in anything a person says? Is it right to trust everybody? There are many people who are not worthy of trust; shall we then trust everybody in order to develop our trust?' The answer is yes. Perhaps we will have failures, but we will only trust another person when we trust ourselves, when we have faith in ourselves then we will have faith in another. Without faith in ourselves we can never have faith in another; to have faith in another is to have faith in ourselves. It does not matter if once or twice we are disappointed, but if we are afraid of being disappointed even once in our lives, perhaps we will doubt all through life, and so there will never come a time when we will be able to trust anybody, even ourselves.
https://wahiduddin.net/saki/saki_date.php

I think sometimes doubt is okay but I certainly get what he's saying here- I sometimes hold expectations over a partner or potential partner and realize it's because I carry an insecurity or fear towards unfaithfulness. But how unfaithful have I been to myself? Many times. Maybe that's why I think others are also unfaithful. Learning to let this old way go is a challenge but proving to be very rewarding... Learning to take action and walk in the direction of my deeper desires is strengthening that trust in myself once more... and it is as he says above....

....if we are afraid of being disappointed even once in our lives, perhaps we will doubt all through life, and so there will never come a time when we will be able to trust anybody, even ourselves.

...Perhaps we will have failures, but we will only trust another person when we trust ourselves, when we have faith in ourselves then we will have faith in another. 

I am bewildered by Hazrat Inayat Khans ability to place trust in All knowing he truly believes God exist in the heart of All... I've even read a statement from him, saying he'd serve his Enemy knowing he'd be serving God. It's hard for me to fathom but I am sure the weight and closeness to his indwelling Spirit, the feeling to walk this Ideal is something many of us on the spiritual path desire... or so I imagine.
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« Reply #12 on: Jun 30, 2017 06:51 am »

Some friends come and go and that's fine. Sometimes it's hard to make sense of things but we certainly have social constructs and today I am seeing the meaning behind todays Saki clear as day.

Each one has his circle of influence, large or small; within his sphere so many souls and minds are involved; with his rise, they rise; with his fall, they fall. The size of a man's sphere corresponds with the extent of his sympathy, or we may say, with the size of his heart. His sympathy holds his sphere together. As his heart grows, his sphere grows; as his sympathy is withdrawn or lessened, so his sphere breaks up and scatters. If he harms those who live and move within his sphere, those dependent upon him or upon his affection, he of necessity harms himself.

from http://wahiduddin.net/mv2/I/I_I_2.htm
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« Reply #13 on: Jul 16, 2017 12:58 pm »

The challenge for me is, to recognize god in the heart of all man. This means god exist in the most corrupt of people. One does not pretend to like a seemingly evil man to achieve this awareness... Many challenges arise in trying to understand this concept- that a spark of God exist in an evil doer... there's much to contemplate here... yesterday's saki brought this to my attention...


https://wahiduddin.net/saki/saki_date.php?m=7&d=15
" Souls on earth are born imperfect and show imperfection, and from this they develop naturally, coming to perfection. If all were perfect, there would have been no purpose in their creation. And manifestation has taken place so that every being here may rise from imperfection towards perfection. That is the object and joy of life and for that this world was created. And if we expected every person to be perfect and conditions to be perfect, then there would be no joy in living and no purpose in coming here. ... When in this world of imperfection we seek for all that is good and beautiful, there are many chances of disappointment. But at the same time if we keep on looking for it, not looking at the dust but looking for the gold, we shall find it. And once we begin to find it we shall find more and more. There comes a time in the life of a man when he can see some good in the worst man in the world. And when he has reached that point, though the good were covered with a thousand covers, he would put his hand on what is good, because he looks for good and attracts what is good. "
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« Reply #14 on: Oct 09, 2017 05:12 pm »

This is more like Bread than Saki =P Some food for thought!

The work of the inner life is to make God a reality, so that He is no more an imagination; that this relationship that man has with God may seem more real than any other relationship in the world; and when this happens, then all relationships, however near and dear, become less binding. But at the same time, a person does not thus become cold; he becomes more loving. It is the godless man who is cold, impressed by the selfishness and lovelessness of the world, because he partakes of those conditions in which he lives. But the one who is in love with God, the one who has established his relationship with God, his love becomes living ...

   from  http://wahiduddin.net/mv2/I/I_II_2.htm


Why is it that among simple and illiterate people a belief in God is to be found, and among the most intellectual, there seems to be a lack of that belief? The answer is that the intellectual ones have their reason. They will not believe in what they do not see... But the process that the wise consider best for the seeker after truth to adopt is the process of first idealizing God and then realizing God.

   from  http://wahiduddin.net/mv2/IV/IV_51.htm


Among millions of believers in God, there is hardly one who makes God a reality, to so many He is an imagination, to many He is in a mosque, a church, or a temple. Many wonder if God is really. Many others think God is goodness, He is a personality separate from us, He is most high, most pure, most beautiful, but He is separate and difficult to reach. Many think that as it takes so long to reach this planet or that, God must be further away still. The purpose of one's whole life is to make God a reality.

   from  http://wahiduddin.net/mv2/archives/cupid.htm
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