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Bowl of Saki Discussion

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« Reply #45 on: Sep 24, 2019 03:45 am »

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The whole tragedy of life is in losing sight of one's natural self, and the greatest gain in life is coming into touch with one's real self. The real self is covered by many layers of ego; those which preponderate above all others are hunger and passion, beneath these are pride and vanity. One must learn to discriminate between what is natural and what is unnatural, what is necessary and what is not necessary, what brings happiness and what brings sorrow. No doubt it is difficult for many to discriminate between right and wrong; but by standing face to face with one's ego and recognizing it as someone who is ready to make war against us, and by keeping one's strength of will as an unsheathed sword, one protects oneself from one's greatest enemy, which is one's own ego. And a time comes in life when one can say, 'My worst enemy has been within myself.'

   from  https://wahiduddin.net/mv2/XIII/XIII_13.htm
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« Reply #46 on: Sep 30, 2019 06:39 am »

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If there is a kingdom of God to be found anywhere, it is within oneself. And it is, therefore, in the knowledge of self that there lies the fulfillment of life. The knowledge of self means the knowledge of one's body, the knowledge of one's mind, the knowledge of one's spirit; the knowledge of the spirit's relation to the body and the relation of the body to the spirit; the knowledge of one's wants and needs, the knowledge of one's virtues and faults; knowing what we desire and how to attain it, what to pursue and what to renounce. And when one dives deep into this, one finds before one a world of knowledge which never ends. And it is that knowledge which gives one insight into human nature and brings one to the knowledge of the whole of creation. And in the end one attains to the knowledge of the divine Being.

   from  https://wahiduddin.net/mv2/I/I_IV_12.htm
This reality is one of experiential wisdom, our bodies are gifts subject to nature and insight to the divine Being.
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« Reply #47 on: Nov 19, 2019 11:53 pm »

The lover of nature is the true worshipper of God.

     Bowl of Saki, August 13, by Hazrat Inayat Khan

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Anyone who has some knowledge of mysticism and of the lives of the mystics knows that what always attracts the mystic most is nature. Nature is his bread and wine. Nature is his soul's nourishment. Nature inspires him, uplifts him and gives him the solitude for which his soul continually longs. Every soul born with a mystical tendency is constantly drawn towards nature; in nature that soul finds its life's demand, as it is said in the Vadan, 'Art is dear to my heart, but nature is near to my soul'. ... Nature does not teach the glory of God; it need not teach this as nature itself is the glory of God. People wish to study astrology and other subjects in order to understand better, but if we study astrology then we are sure to arrive at an interpretation which is given by a man, whereas what we should read from nature is what nature gives us and not what any book teaches us.

There comes a time with the maturity of the soul when every thing and every being begins to reveal its nature to us. We do not need to read their lives. We do not need to read their theories. We know then that this wide nature in its four aspects is ever-revealing and that one can always communicate with it, but that in spite of this it is not the privilege of every soul to read it. Many souls remain blind with open eyes. They are in heaven, but not allowed to look at heaven; they are in paradise, but not allowed to enjoy the beauties of paradise. It is just like a person sleeping on a pile of gems and jewels. From the moment man's eyes open and he begins to read the book of nature he begins to live; and he continues to live forever.

   from  https://wahiduddin.net/mv2/XI/XI_III_7.htm

So it is with our practices, to seek God and to find him in All things.

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A true worshipper of God sees His presence in all forms, and thus in respecting others he respects God. It may even develop to such an extent that the true worshipper of God, the Omnipresent, walks gently on the earth, bowing in his heart even to every tree and plant, and it is then that the worshipper forms a communion with the Divine Beloved at all times, when he is awake and when he is asleep.

   from  https://wahiduddin.net/mv2/XIII/XIII_15.htm

I had mixed feelings about this quote as you may suspect Eric; while I completely agree to your quotes about nature I also see that astrology and the stars are also part of nature and therefore also the glory of God. And, just as we read someone else’s interpretation of Indian Totems to understand the significance of nature in human affairs we also may read the information available of the stars in human affairs. This by no means should hinder our own observation, and appreciation of what we witness. Nor should my reading the above quotes somehow diminish my own appreciation of nature but only add to it thru the eyes of someone else. I say let us learn from our differences as we share are similarities.


Dear Steve, if you are having mixed feelings perhaps reading the entirety of the discourse will provide a clearer understanding. The chapter on Nature is found here, https://wahiduddin.net/mv2/XI/XI_III_7.htm
Hazrat Inayat Khan has often described Nature as the One sacred manuscript according to the 10 sufi principles.
From the quotes provided, I understood this to be a difference of second hand knowledge vs direct experience. Gurunath and others teach that pure intuition is soul consciousness. These students of life we call gurus are a reflection of the one master guiding us all, and they teach us how to access that direct experience- a communion with God. You are not wrong in your assessment, I find this to be another moment where you and Hazrat Inayat Khan are saying the same thing. It's a question of what is most beneficial- direct knowledge from God or knowledge indirectly from God as filtered and transcribed by someone else?
For example, we can consider both animal totems or number prompts for those who experience the 1111 phenomenon as being whispers from the divine. While the moment might arouse our curiosity, one needn't google search the meaning of 333 or google search the meaning of a fox as an animal totem to understand the message even though having access to such information is both exciting and useful. It is how I have pursued my own curiosities for a good portion of this journey. It is also important to consider the innumerable ways in which the Divine guides us. Yet there comes a certain point when one realizes that these moments are a direct communication with God and the meaning is therefore unique to the individual as defined by their life experience alongside their intuition. Here we rely more on stillness and going within to better understand those moments, this is a type of language and with practice a type of certainty is brought about.


PS Reading the moment from a place of stillness and realizing the channel of communication with God is always open is such a rewarding and unique experience! I am learning so much if I can just still myself and be present.
 Smiley
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« Reply #48 on: Nov 26, 2019 11:29 pm »

Today's message,

The heart must be empty in order to receive the knowledge of God.


As Inayat Khan states,

"In order to know the truth or to know God earthly qualifications and earthly wisdom or learning are not necessary. What one has to learn is how to become a pupil. ..."

What's most important is to develop stillness and to allow the light of God to flow in, working on an intuitive level, nothing else really compares.
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« Reply #49 on: Jan 07, 2020 06:18 pm »

it interest me that in our interactions with others, as we operate from the false reality, the ugly aspects we see are a reflection of something inside ourselves. or how selfish we are, to have acquired love and once it becomes familiar- throw it away, so that we might find that same love in the face of another. and more interesting than being a supernova is the force that causes its momentum to cease.

when we accept ourselves, it isn't necessary to chase anything and we might be forgiving of harmful or ignorant actions made against us because when we accept ourselves- those things don't matter.

love, is love.

sometimes we become immune to a particular fragrance for having been exposed to it for so long. lets not be blind to whats right in front of us.
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« Reply #50 on: Jan 08, 2020 12:33 pm »

it interest me that in our interactions with others, as we operate from the false reality, the ugly aspects we see are a reflection of something inside ourselves. or how selfish we are, to have acquired love and once it becomes familiar- throw it away, so that we might find that same love in the face of another. and more interesting than being a supernova is the force that causes its momentum to cease.

when we accept ourselves, it isn't necessary to chase anything and we might be forgiving of harmful or ignorant actions made against us because when we accept ourselves- those things don't matter.

love, is love.

sometimes we become immune to a particular fragrance for having been exposed to it for so long. lets not be blind to whats right in front of us.


Yea ERIC I find this to be true about people who come and go in my life. When they are with us we are so caught up in our experiences with them we tend to get “immune to their particular fragrance for having been exposed to it for so long.” I have have seen this in my life with others as well. But it reminds us that behind the current conflict we may experience presently there is love surrounding us. It is just that the conflict often gets the best of us and eats it up.

Furthermore now when I think of the smell of Jasmine I used to smell in California where I would meditate it makes me feel so good and longing to experience it once again. Although some experiences we have to let go and realize that new and beautiful ones-though different-are with us now as well.
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« Reply #51 on: Mar 30, 2020 11:09 pm »

According to his evolution, one knows truth.

     Bowl of Saki, March 29, by Hazrat Inayat Khan
 
 

Somebody can be praised by one and hated by another, and ten people may all have a different idea of the same person, because each understands him according to his state of evolution. Each sees that person according to his own point of view, each looks at him through his own eyes, and therefore the same person is different to each being. In the mind of one the person is a sinner, in the mind of another he is a saint. The same person who is considered gentle and good by one is considered the opposite by another. If this can be so in connection with a living being, it is equally possible that various ideas of the deity should be formed in each heart, and that each soul should mold his own deity according to his own evolution and according to his way of idealizing and understanding. Therefore the deity of every heart is different and is as that person has imagined; but the God of every soul is one and the same, whatever people imagine. It is the same God that they all imagine, but their imaginations are different and it is the lack of understanding of this that has caused the differences in religion.

   from  https://wahiduddin.net/mv2/IX/IX_11.htm

isn't it true, that one may see a potential in us while another would condemn us and by their own thought we may never be more than that- what they choose to see.
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« Reply #52 on: Mar 31, 2020 08:25 am »

inayat khans teacher was undetected by his neighbors, and when inayat khan told the neighbor of such a wise person- the neighbor was surprised to find out that after all this time he had been living next to an esteemed being. it goes to show just how shut off we are to the magic that is available in each person, the spark of god. to learn to read the moment, even when the other is unaware of their own glory, is a true blessing.
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« Reply #53 on: Mar 31, 2020 09:19 pm »


According to his evolution, one knows truth.

     Bowl of Saki, March 29, by Hazrat Inayat Khan
 
 

Somebody can be praised by one and hated by another, and ten people may all have a different idea of the same person, because each understands him according to his state of evolution. Each sees that person according to his own point of view, each looks at him through his own eyes, and therefore the same person is different to each being. In the mind of one the person is a sinner, in the mind of another he is a saint. The same person who is considered gentle and good by one is considered the opposite by another. If this can be so in connection with a living being, it is equally possible that various ideas of the deity should be formed in each heart, and that each soul should mold his own deity according to his own evolution and according to his way of idealizing and understanding. Therefore the deity of every heart is different and is as that person has imagined; but the God of every soul is one and the same, whatever people imagine. It is the same God that they all imagine, but their imaginations are different and it is the lack of understanding of this that has caused the differences in religion.

   from  https://wahiduddin.net/mv2/IX/IX_11.htm




I love this quote.  It is so true.  Ramana Maharshi said the same thing of Gurus/Saints/Masters... Only a Master can truly recognize another.


isn't it true, that one may see a potential in us while another would condemn us and by their own thought we may never be more than that- what they choose to see.

I think it is an opportunity for us to recalibrate who we are best served to be around.  It's not always easy to see, but others can not uplift or condemn us, unless we grant "the concept of the other having that power" that power.

☮️
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« Reply #54 on: Apr 19, 2020 05:24 pm »

“Everyone experiences such a thing at some time or other. When things are in harmony with the divine will, everything is there; we just glance towards a thing and it is found, as in the saying, 'Word spoken, action done.' When we strive with all the material in our hands and yet cannot achieve our desire, that is when the matter is contrary to the divine will. Our success or failure all depends upon the harmony or disharmony of our individual will with the divine will. ... Contentment and perfect resignation open up a harmonious feeling and bring the divine will into harmony with our own. Our blessing now becomes a divine blessing, our words divine words, our atmosphere a divine atmosphere, although we seem to be limited beings; for our will becomes absorbed into the whole, and so our will becomes the will of God.”

He makes it sound so easy. I have experienced that feeling of being in harmony and everything being there. However those moments often themselves I have found sometimes to be illusions... hmmm Maybe he addresses that experience somewhere else and just have to persevere despite setbacks.

I think we experience ups and downs ... just like in life itself. We just persevere if we have a goal in mind or we find something worth pursuing. If we see some feed back in the goal we desire it is likely to be something worthwhile. Sometimes we just have to have faith to carry us on and there are times when we just seem to plod along with tenacity, whether it is for faith in a person, place or thing we desire. If that desire proves false we eventually have to go back to the drawing board and start a new direction. But as long as the feeling of some accomplishment and need persists we continue on towards our goal.

Grace is always with us. We just have to recognize it!
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« Reply #55 on: Oct 21, 2021 03:40 pm »

What I find interesting about todays lesson is noticing when others hold us accountable by means of manipulation- we recognize we are humans living and learning through duality, a limited scope of the world, a limited Truth called a personality- and are willing to accept we are not enlightened. Yet when we attempt to rise above, dismantle barriers and act in accordance with a deeper desire to Love, to emulate a peaceful disposition- there are those close to us who would then use any deviation, from their eyes, their limited Truth to hurt us into compliance into their views. Usually it is just words, and often it is in order to satisfy their own ego, their desires should they be contrary to our own. An example I can give is when someone says, "oh i thought you were mr spiritual."
"for being so spiritual you are surely the opposite."

I find people lash out like this when there is something disagreeable to them, even if we are considering our own health. It goes to show you can not please every body in the pursuit of peace. When in a like-minded community of seekers, it would appear more dangerous than to be obviously different- as if others ideas of spirituality are subconsciously placed on those within the community. Relationships with others can help us rise above, or shackle us to this domineering energy and spoil- creating one rotten relationship. It is just as important to celebrate our differences as well as our uniting ideals- to say, you believe in Love- I believe in Love... how we get there may be different- who you are, who I am, may be different- and these are beautiful reflections of One god.

Anyone looking to corner you into their definitions are in fact lonely and miserable in whatever knowledge they think they posses. While we celebrate these unique expressions of God, there are times we must learn to rise above our selves in the remembrance we each believe in Love.
We may not understand the others view, we may not know how they got there- but we can instead place faith that they will, that we will.

Hmm....
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« Reply #56 on: Nov 12, 2021 10:36 pm »

Independence is achieved by indifference. It does not mean that one should take no heed of what anyone does or says; it only means one should discriminate between important and unimportant things of everyday life; that every necessary and unnecessary thing should not demand so much of one's attention, thought, and feeling. Political economy has become a subject of education, but spiritual economy is the main thing in religion. All one says and does and all that one thinks and feels puts a certain strain upon one's spirit. It is wise to avoid every risk of losing one's equilibrium. One must stand peacefully but firmly before all influences that disturb one's life. The natural inclination is to answer in defense to every offense that comes from outside, but in that way one loses one's equilibrium. Self-control, therefore, is the key to all success and happiness.

   from  https://wahiduddin.net/mv2/III/III_III_1.htm
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« Reply #57 on: Nov 18, 2021 04:06 pm »

In reality there cannot be many religions; there is only one. There cannot be two truths; there cannot be two masters. As there is only one God and one religion, there is one master and there is one truth. And the weakness of man has been that only what he is accustomed to consider as truth he takes to be truth, and anything he has not been accustomed to hear or think frightens him. Just like a person in a strange land, away from home, the soul is a stranger to the nature of things it is not accustomed to. But the journey to perfection means rising above limitations, rising so high that not only the horizon of one country, of one continent, is seen, but that of the whole world. The higher we rise, the wider becomes the horizon of our view.
https://wahiduddin.net/mv2/IX/IX_29.htm

If one would realize that the world of God, His splendor and magnificence, are to be seen in the wise and the foolish, in the good and the bad, then one would think tolerantly and reverently of all mankind, knowing that it represents the messenger, as the messenger represents God. For no one has seen God at any time, but if there is anyone who represents God, it is the man who speaks His word. God is seen in the one who glorifies Him. But if our hearts are closed, even if we wait for a thousand years for the messenger to show himself, we shall never find him. For he who is always there has said, 'I am Alpha and Omega. I exist every moment. When you call me, I am there. Knock at the door, and I will answer you.' And those whose eyes are open do not need to go to a church and look at a picture or statue of the Lord. In the eyes of every infant, in the smile of every innocent child, they receive the blessing of Christ.
https://wahiduddin.net/mv2/IX/IX_29.htm
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« Reply #58 on: Nov 18, 2021 07:14 pm »

Not sure how much you contemplate on his words Eric. I know that you have felt at times to have been responded to unkindly so I am reluctant to ‘barge’ in. However I do appreciate your ‘dream journals’ and ‘bowl of saki’ talks whether you want a response or not.
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« Reply #59 on: Nov 18, 2021 07:22 pm »

I read his words every morning and contemplate often. I've found that, even if I have stepped away from Inayat Khan- there is wisdom that rings true no matter where I am in life and have found refuge in that, whether I've strayed from the path or am in actuality finding my own. The mocking bird, which is my personal incarnation of Inayat Khan and Sufism- has never left me. I am grateful for God, and his unending support.

This topic is unlocked for the very reason you may comment. My dream journal was locked when intrusive questions began to feel like personal threats. Whether that is true or not, I think if a member wants to have their own journal archived here and leave it at that, it is just fine. There are plenty of instances I have been responded to unkindly, and it will continue. I find what's worse is people can't even hold attention anymore. I could be mid conversation with someone and their attention goes to their phone, or they forget what they are saying. Rather than become annoyed, or respond to unkindly mannerisms with unkindly mannerisms- I've learned to walk away and if there is a genuine interest in exchange- the time and place will be made available.

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