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What is Paramhansaji's rendering of 2:12 or thereabouts?


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Author Topic: What is Paramhansaji's rendering of 2:12 or thereabouts?  (Read 105 times)
Live to Learn
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« on: Jan 26, 2010 08:05 pm »

I'd be interested to read it, as it's my favourite verse of the Bhagavad Gita, and to not be familiar with Guruji's take on it seems wrong in some way. This is the verse which talks of the immortality of the soul, rendered variously, but usually expressed as:

"There never was a time when I did not exist, nor you, nor any of these kings, nor will there be any future where we cease to be."

« Last Edit: Jan 26, 2010 09:29 pm by Live to Learn » Report Spam   Logged

"The treasure of friendship is your richest possession, because it goes with you beyond this life. All true friends you have made you will meet again in the home of the Father, for real love is never lost." ~ Paramahansa Yogananda
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« Reply #1 on: Jan 26, 2010 08:23 pm »

I absolutely must make space for it, but I'm not quite sure how to, considering that God Talks with Arjuna is two volumes, as I understand.

Slow by slow...
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« Reply #2 on: Jan 26, 2010 09:19 pm »

Thanks, Steve.

I get the feeling I'm beginning to be one of those who are "running backwards", according to Paramhansaji's "race" analogy on the spiritual life.

L T L
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"The treasure of friendship is your richest possession, because it goes with you beyond this life. All true friends you have made you will meet again in the home of the Father, for real love is never lost." ~ Paramahansa Yogananda
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« Reply #3 on: Mar 10, 2010 02:25 am »

In Paramahansa Yogananda's SRF published Gita commentary, "God Talks With Arjuna - The Bhagavad Gita - Royal Science of God-Realization" the encompassing commentary containing Chapter 2, Verse 11 thru 30 (pp. 194 - 244) is titled, "The Eternal, Transcendental Nature of the Soul".   

It is challenging to consider a single verse without reading the context and flow of the surrounding verses.   It is also useful to read different English "translations" as each uniquely flows, some more poetic, others more focused on specific words and phrases to convey root intent.   

I've taken the liberty to include Sir Edwin Arnold's 1885 poetic version, "The Song Celestial" -- Ch. 2, V 11 thru 22.  The intent is to provide the resources for considerations and discussion.   (See below).

But first, let's look at a couple of Yogananda's verses...  including the favorite of our friend, Live To Learn...  this will provide a sample, a flavor...

Verse 11 -
The Blessed Lord said:
Thou hast been lamenting for those not worth thy lamentations !
Yet thou dost utter words of lore. 
The truly wise mourn neither for those who are living nor for those who have passed away.


Verse 12 -
It is not that I have never before been incarnated;
nor thou, nor these other royal ones !
And never in all futurity shall any one of us not exist !


Verse 13 -
As in the body the emodied Self passes through childhood, youth, and old age,
so is its passage into another body;
the wise therat are not disturbed.


Verse 20 -
This Self is never born nor does it ever perish;
nor having come into existence will it again cease to be. 
It is birthless, eternal, changeless, ever-same (unaffected by the usual processes associated with time).
It is not slain when the body is killed.


**********
In Sir Arnold's 1885 Gita Translation (SRF 1985 printing)... 
Verses (are best found by noting the use of the period mark.)

11 -
KRISHNA: 
Thou grievest where no grief should be !   thou speak'st
Words lacking wisdom !  for the wise in heart
Mourn not for those that live, nor those that die.

12-
Nor I, nor thou, nor any one of these,
Ever was not, nor ever will not be,
Forever and forever afterwards.

13-
All that doth live lives always !  To man's frame
As there com infancy and youth and age,
So come there raisings-up and layings-down
Of other and of other life-abodes,
Which the wise know, and fear not. 


14-
This that irks -
Thy sens-life, thrilling to the elements --
Brining thee heat and cold, sorrows and joys,
'Tis brief and mutable ! Bear with it, Prince !
As the wise bear.   

15-
The soul which is not moved,
The soul that with a strong and constant calm
Takes sorrow and takes joy indifferently,
Lives in the life undying ! 

16-
That which is
Can never cease to be;  that which is not
Will not exist.   To see this truth of both
Is theirs who part essence from accident,
Sustance from shadow. 

17 -
Indestructible,
Learn thou ! the Life is, spreading life through all;
It cannot anywhere, by any means,
Be anywise diminished, stayed or changed.

18 -
But for these fleeting frames which it informs
With spirit deathless, endless, infinite,
They perish.  Let them perish, Prince ! and fight !

19 -
He who shall say, "Lo! I have slain a man!"
He who shall think, "Lo! I am slain!" those both
Know naught !  Life cannot slay.  Life is not slain!

20-
Never the spirit was born;
the spirit shall cease to be never;
Never was time it was not;
End and Beginning are dreams !
Birthless and deathless and changeless remaineth the spirit forever;
Death hath not touched it at all,
dead though the house of it seems !

21 -
Who knoweth it exhaustless, self-sustained,
Immortal, indestructible -- shall such
Say, "I have killed a man, or caused to kill" ?

22-
Nay, but as when one layeth
His worn-out robes away,
And, taking new ones, sayeth,
"These will I wear today!"

So putteth by the spirit
lightly its garb of flesh,
And passeth to inherit
A residence afresh.

« Last Edit: Mar 10, 2010 02:50 am by namaste2All » Report Spam   Logged
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« Reply #4 on: Mar 10, 2010 02:33 am »

Yogananda's commentary of Verse 12 begins (uniquely with some prose) --

I have bloomed before in the garden of life,
Even as now!
You and all these royal ones -- here once more!--
Blossomed fragrantly in lives long gone.
All barren trees of future lives
We may choose to adorn anew
With buds of our reincarnated souls !
Erstwhile did we abide in formless form
In Spirit's everlastingness,
And thither do we wend again !

In the transient realm of time and space, there is constant change, or cessation, in form and expression; but the essence within these changes endures.  Everlasting is the soul of man (the true Self) and the soul of the universe (Kutastha Chaitanya, the Krishna or Christ Conscousness)--the "thou and I" expressions of Spirit.  Permanent also are the principles of Nature, the Spirit-essentials of being or manifestation--"these other royal ones."  In some form or another all that is and has been shall ever be.  (This concept is further developed in II:16
.
)


Yogananda's Verse 12 commentary then goes on to discuss the "Past, future and the Eternal Now"... 
« Last Edit: Mar 10, 2010 02:53 am by namaste2All » Report Spam   Logged
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« Reply #5 on: Mar 10, 2010 02:40 am »

I am more partial to Ch 2, Verse 20 -- it has similar intent as V12... 
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« Reply #6 on: Mar 12, 2010 12:07 am »

2:20 is a better rendering, indeed. I appreciate your taking the time to write this out for me, namaste2all.

Cheesy

_/\_ to you,

L T L

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"The treasure of friendship is your richest possession, because it goes with you beyond this life. All true friends you have made you will meet again in the home of the Father, for real love is never lost." ~ Paramahansa Yogananda

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