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Hong-Sau


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namaste2All
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« Reply #15 on: Apr 12, 2015 09:32 am »

From 2007 SRF Convocation:
"Hong-Sau is not about controlling, but about being aware."

*******
per Dr. Lewis,  in his sermon recorded on tape, and available via YouTube
"Man is Not as He Appears", 
he discusses what gurudeva called the "Two Attunements"

Notice Dr. Lewis when he says :
"making dynamic (visual) to consciousness.... "
This is same that is being hinted at regarding ( "awareness" ) in the 2007 Convo on Hong Sau --

So,...
Hong Sau works to
make dynamic (visual) to our conscioiusness,
the "automatic" (autonomous nervous and organ systems) attunement
-- physical breath, sympathetic/parasympathetic, etc. --
of the Ida Pingala making the breath moving...
albeit via the baby kriya --

Having achieved mastery in the (baby Kriya) of Hong Sau,
the yogi is then able to receive Royal Kriya
which serves the yogi to expand further,
by this time,
ready to start observing the interior realms...
(that are exposed in deep Kriya practice)

Royal Kriya (Raja Kriya)
makes dynamic to our consciousness (we observe and become aware of)
-- Prana interiorizing in layers of subtle spines, etc. --
is the 2nd attunement
making the more subtle, sustaining
visual dynamic to consciousness...


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« Reply #16 on: Apr 12, 2015 09:45 am »

Thanks for reminding Steve, I'm about to do my Hong Sau now.

Yes, watching the breath and be aware of it, no voluntary control on it, although the relaxed awareness should cause a decrease in the frequency of breathing cycles.

Unfortunately, in my case frequency decreases but breath never stops altogether.

Human being (and even animals) works by motivation, so it's not easy to go on with enthusiasm when you have no results from actions, even if carried out correctly.

This is my personal complaint related to techniques, they give little or no results compared to the time you devote to them. It's not easy to go on for hours when there is no feedback.

Of course that's my personal case, hope it is different for other devotees.
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« Reply #17 on: Apr 12, 2015 01:01 pm »

Thanks for reminding Steve, I'm about to do my Hong Sau now.

Yes, watching the breath and be aware of it, no voluntary control on it, although the relaxed awareness should cause a decrease in the frequency of breathing cycles.

Unfortunately, in my case frequency decreases but breath never stops altogether.

Human being (and even animals) works by motivation, so it's not easy to go on with enthusiasm when you have no results from actions, even if carried out correctly.

This is my personal complaint related to techniques, they give little or no results compared to the time you devote to them. It's not easy to go on for hours when there is no feedback.

Of course that's my personal case, hope it is different for other devotees.

The latest reminder was from Scott;

"Hong Sau works to
make dynamic (visual) to our conscioiusness,
the "automatic" (autonomous nervous and organ systems) attunement
-- physical breath, sympathetic/parasympathetic, etc. --
of the Ida Pingala making the breath moving..."~ from Scott's last post.


Perhaps, as Scott has mentioned, much of the practice is to develop awareness... awareness of the breath and more subtle processes...however long it may take.

I appreciate the candid honesty. Hong Sau is like a constant prayer and affirmation in which we  are affirming 'i am he'. i believe it is diificult for most of us to go on praying but this gives a physical method. The motivations i have recieved are not so much in the practice but rather in the spiritual experiences that happen in life's day to day activities. If we look for a logical sequence of events it just doesn't always appear forthcoming like 'a' produces 'b'. This may b one of the impediments we experience in placing a
criteria for sucess on spiritual progress. We may have to evaluate it differently.
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« Reply #18 on: Apr 12, 2015 02:12 pm »

The motivations i have recieved are not so much in the practice but rather in the spiritual experiences that happen in life's day to day activities. If we look for a logical sequence of events it just doesn't always appear forthcoming like 'a' produces 'b'. This may b one of the impediments we experience in placing a criteria for sucess on spiritual progress. We may have to evaluate it differently.

Since I'm still practicing haung sau and kryia of course I don't give vital importance to stopping the breath and plunging into superconsciousness.
But it would be a definite boost.
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« Reply #19 on: Apr 14, 2015 06:52 am »

The motivations i have recieved are not so much in the practice but rather in the spiritual experiences that happen in life's day to day activities. If we look for a logical sequence of events it just doesn't always appear forthcoming like 'a' produces 'b'. This may b one of the impediments we experience in placing a criteria for sucess on spiritual progress. We may have to evaluate it differently.

Since I'm still practicing haung sau and kryia of course I don't give vital importance to stopping the breath and plunging into superconsciousness.
But it would be a definite boost.

No doubt u know the story of Anandamoy asking P.Y. when he would have a similar experience and he answered 'soon now soon'. I also remember a similar story about Amma. A devotee always asked when she would get a spiritual name. Her response was always 'tomorrow'. i also remember her saying that 'even in heaven we have to wait in que.' And Anandamoy said ' I was always this way ' .... pointing to himself. Yes, no doubt we would get a boost but how many of us would think instead... how best we could serve?

I know for me; meditation, from the beginning, was all about me. It took a long while to even realize that.... How selfish i can be. Superconsciousness and Selfishness are like oil and water - they don't mix. Looking at the lives of say an Amma we quickly realize our idea of service is at best only the beginning. I have seen this in saints i have met. They have that one thought of serving the Lord. It is truly humbling when we are blessed to see their service in action. Whenever I have difficulties meditating i start looking at how much I have served lately. In many ways are journey has only begun. Attitude adjustment is also a part of our every day routine. But as soon as we are sincere we will be given many opportunities to see where we fall short. Perhaps yours is much different then mine.
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« Reply #20 on: Apr 15, 2015 12:05 am »

Steve, I share your reasonings, but I might pose this question:

Would I, you, we, serve better with or without boost? The spiritual boost is supposed to influence our mind by fresh energy and enthusiasm. Would the boost promote ego or a serving attitude?

The boost may even be a test, whoever develops ego fails the test, whover develops a serving attitude passes the test.

I would just love to be tested though.

But maybe the test is just waiting patiently for the above test.

So we have a preliminary test, which is just: waiting for the test proper. The wait may be a very long one.
Then we have the test proper: a nice spiritual experience which may boost our pride or our altruism and unselfishness.

If our pride is boosted, than we are back to the preliminary test
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« Reply #21 on: Apr 17, 2015 03:35 am »

I think I've failed the test many times.  Smiley
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« Reply #22 on: Apr 17, 2015 06:39 am »

I think I've failed the test many times.  Smiley

Too much meat in your diet! (Halarious laughter!) Be careful you may end up with vampirism or in a wild dog pack! Meat causes restlessness... very difficult to practice hong sau! You'll be panting all the time! Sorry Eric... i couldn't help it.... i know you can laugh at yourself though! Yea I've failed that test big time!
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« Reply #23 on: Apr 18, 2015 01:20 am »

Hi Steve,
We're shining the same light but from different galaxies.



 

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« Reply #24 on: Oct 13, 2016 08:54 pm »

I just finished to meditate in front of the screen with this clock on:

http://www.clocktab.com/

Doing Hong Sau, I check how many breaths per minute and this is a way to try and calm the breath. Tonite the frequency was pretty irregular, sometimes 3 or 4 BPM, sometimes over 10, with very shallow and imperceptible breaths.
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« Reply #25 on: Oct 16, 2016 07:49 am »

I just finished to meditate in front of the screen with this clock on:

http://www.clocktab.com/

Doing Hong Sau, I check how many breaths per minute and this is a way to try and calm the breath. Tonite the frequency was pretty irregular, sometimes 3 or 4 BPM, sometimes over 10, with very shallow and imperceptible breaths.

Although attention is somewhat diverted watching a clock with eyes open--- I think it is a novel idea and good one to implement in our routine from time to time. I intend on using it to see just how much the breath is slowing down.

I remember spending time with a therapist when I was younger. As a friend he took an interest in my excitement about meditation and showed me a device he had that measured and showed brain waves on a screen. It had wires that had electrodes on the ends to connect to your head and you could see on the screen how your brain waves changed as you started meditating and concentrated on focusing being calm. It was quite amazing how you could consciously change your brain waves from beta to alpha waves with some theta waves coming in! 😉

.http://www.binauralbeatsonline.com/functions-of-the-five-different-brain-waves/
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« Reply #26 on: Oct 16, 2016 08:09 pm »

I just finished to meditate in front of the screen with this clock on:

http://www.clocktab.com/

Doing Hong Sau, I check how many breaths per minute and this is a way to try and calm the breath. Tonite the frequency was pretty irregular, sometimes 3 or 4 BPM, sometimes over 10, with very shallow and imperceptible breaths.

Although attention is somewhat diverted watching a clock with eyes open--- I think it is a novel idea and good one to implement in our routine from time to time. I intend on using it to see just how much the breath is slowing down.

I remember spending time with a therapist when I was younger. As a friend he took an interest in my excitement about meditation and showed me a device he had that measured and showed brain waves on a screen. It had wires that had electrodes on the ends to connect to your head and you could see on the screen how your brain waves changed as you started meditating and concentrated on focusing being calm. It was quite amazing how you could consciously change your brain waves from beta to alpha waves with some theta waves coming in! 😉

.http://www.binauralbeatsonline.com/functions-of-the-five-different-brain-waves/

I tried for a few minutes this morning. I'm about where u are mccoy...relaxed a bit more and got it to 3 bpm. Will try it some more...I like your experiment.
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« Reply #27 on: Oct 17, 2016 02:38 pm »

Steve, 3 bpm is pretty good, 2 starts being advanced pranayama, at one we would approach total control of breath.

One caveat to those who are reading though, there should be no conscious effort to breath deeply, that would be cheating, since that would naturally decrease bpms but would not involve total relaxation. We should not interfere at all with the natural rythm of breathing.
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« Reply #28 on: Oct 17, 2016 04:59 pm »

Just starting out hong-sau can be different from doing the practice after kriyas when the breath has been considerably slowed down. The challenge I am having with the phone clock u have given is that it constantly turns off and I have too touch the screen to get it going. I am going to try looking at a digital clock plugged in the wall. Perhaps u are using a larger screen on a computer. We must also consider that when we distract ourselves by looking at a clock it takes away from the deep focus that can be achieved during mantra practice. However there really is no way we can conduct any self study with out being somewhat consciously being distracted.

What also interests me is the many exercises the SRF lessons give in holding the breath specific amounts of time. The mantra technique is not to be practiced this way as u have mentioned but should be completely natural. However when we do observe the spaces in between breaths it has an effect of lengthening these spaces. When we do observe ourselves saying the mantra to the inhalations and exhalations it does seem to naturally lengthen those breaths. Why is this so? Because we are mindful of the breaths and consciously seeing what they are doing. Whenever you focus your concentration on anything like this the interior thought slows respiration to some degree.
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« Reply #29 on: Oct 25, 2016 11:14 pm »

Steve, I have a large screen and the clock image is steady. Maybe it's your energy saving program which is making it disappear. I don't know about any settings inside the software other than the display format.

I keep a dark background and huge numbers so I'm not very distracted.
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