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Hong-Sau

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Steve Hydonus
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« Reply #30 on: Oct 29, 2016 11:23 am »

Steve, I have a large screen and the clock image is steady. Maybe it's your energy saving program which is making it disappear. I don't know about any settings inside the software other than the display format.

I keep a dark background and huge numbers so I'm not very distracted.

Yes phones have energy saving programs. I just plugged in a digital alarm clock with brite red read out in the sleeping room so I can see what progress I am making with the mantra and breath.
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« Reply #31 on: Nov 06, 2016 12:07 pm »

Tonite this is what I found; While staring at my setting I was breathing 20 times a minute.

2. After setting a few minutes the breathing slowed to about 12 a minute.

3. Then I practiced Yoganandas' breathing 10-10-10 exercises and double breathing. The count went further down to 6 or 8 per minute.

4. Then I practiced kriyas and the count went to about 4 per minute.

5. Then I practiced jyoti mudra and the count went to about 2 or 3 per minute.

6. I stopped meditating to write this and my breath is about 8 per minute.

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« Reply #32 on: Nov 06, 2016 09:05 pm »

Interesting sequence, Steve, I'll have to try that out
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« Reply #33 on: Nov 06, 2016 09:55 pm »

Tonight I could not meditate properly because of some throat disturbance. As soon as I started my breath rate was 5 to 6, not decreasing after a few minutes. I could not do kryia because of a strange throat constriction, probably mucus. It is maybe natural that breath rate decreases after kryia and joty since such techniques oxygenate the body.
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« Reply #34 on: Nov 07, 2016 08:07 am »

Tonight I could not meditate properly because of some throat disturbance. As soon as I started my breath rate was 5 to 6, not decreasing after a few minutes. I could not do kryia because of a strange throat constriction, probably mucus. It is maybe natural that breath rate decreases after kryia and joty since such techniques oxygenate the body.

Thinking of you! Maybe you could practice the om technique since it does not require anything from the throat but just listening and chanting om internally.

Interesting sequence, Steve, I'll have to try that out

Actually it was inspired by your idea of using the clock. Just realized using the om board would cause more activity.... Not good for slowing breath. I'll use it another time. This idea of stillness and slowing the breath and all body functions to have a similar effect on the brain activities requires quite a bit of awareness. The body and mind go on and on in their restless activity and chattering if unchecked.  Saddling the breath to a clock is also somewhat helpful since it seems our consciousness is like the wild horses that Krishna had to control. This whole thing is quite an art and science mccoy. It is easy to be undisciplined about it and careless. Because there is really no Zen master to hit us with a stick. There is really no policeman to tell us what the laws are. If we do not track our own behavior and progress during meditation who will? Sometimes I do not feel like doing anything but that is inertia and it takes an act of will or inspiration from those around us to get to our practice otherwise we will waste this incarnation away. Enervation sneaks up on us in a moment of stasis.
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« Reply #35 on: Nov 07, 2016 08:48 am »

Steve, the throat thing is an occasional event but the brain construes it as suffocation so there is not much to do about it. I believe it's some excess mucus in the larynnx. Luckily it is rare or occasional.

This morning I tried again.

My initial breath rate was 4 to 6 per second. With Hong sau it dropped to 3 to 4 per second. After Kryia it was initially 3 then again 4 after a little while.
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« Reply #36 on: Nov 07, 2016 08:05 pm »

Tonite my initial rate was 4 to 6 BPM (breaths per minutes). After HS it went down to 2-3 BPM.
After Kryia I didn't check.
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« Reply #37 on: Nov 08, 2016 05:50 am »

Tonite my initial rate was 4 to 6 BPM (breaths per minutes). After HS it went down to 2-3 BPM.
After Kryia I didn't check.

It amazes me how much the mind and its thoughts affect our meditation. We can say that we are not thinking but it is obvious u must think to count how many times u have breathed in a minute so the idea of breaths per minute is in your mind and this can be an obstacle to peaceful or blissful meditation. However we are just running an experiment here and it does help the endless wondering of thoughts that we must deal with during meditation.

Paramahansa Yogananda recommended affirming this before practicing the technique of breathlessness given in the hong-sau lesson:

"I know that breath is the cord that ties my soul to the body. In breathlessness I find my soul free to unite with thine omnipresent both within and beyond my body. The storm of breath causes ripples of sensation and thoughts on the lake of my mind and I behold a distorted image of thy presence. Oh Spirit! Stop the storm of breath. Conjure away ripples of restlessness. Teach me to behold thy moon presence in the unruffled lake of my consciousness." P.Y.
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« Reply #38 on: Nov 08, 2016 01:30 pm »

Hi mccoy. I started out at about 8 bpm with Hong Sau. After practicing the 10-10-10 and double breathing I went to 6 bpm . Then after kriyas 3 bpm. I did the joyti mudras and felt bliss creep up on me but then remembered the count and the bliss immediately left. We have a problem here. We may not be able to enjoy the possible fruits of meditation and counts breaths simultaneously. You said at one point you stopped counting during kriyas. It may be that occasional different states of consciousness slow the breath more and are not able to know studying ourselves. We may turn out to be what Sri Yukteswar called a 'budding experimentalist' when describing Paramahansa Yogananda since he was checking out whether Sri Yukteswar was breathing during meditation.

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« Reply #39 on: Nov 09, 2016 04:29 am »

Mccoy thank-you for adding so much to this thread and creating an inspirational climate to want to practice this technique with more attention and interest.

Jitendra
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« Reply #40 on: Nov 09, 2016 02:25 pm »

Steve yes, I agree that counting may disrupt an initial state of bliss.

Personally I find it beneficial and when the timespan between breaths gets longer, there I feel the peace and do not need to coutn since the breath is still. So I find I can conciliate the two. Besides, right now it's giving me motivation, which I badly need.

As to Kryia and Joty, after these techniques I do not count breaths, since we are not practicing HS and breaths per minute are not a basic part of meditation proper. It may be useful to count the heart rate though, since a lowered heart rate leads to prathayara, and maybe this could be our addictional experimentation.

I agree that balance is needed in these experiments, I find I can count without identifying with the count itself and the counting helps me to focus on the technique.
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« Reply #41 on: Nov 09, 2016 02:28 pm »

Yesterday I went from 5-6 BPM to 2.5 BPM (average across the last 5 minutes of the technique).

I find that, from 3 BPM and below, the feeling of peace starts to creep in. The feeling of peace governs when BPM is around 2.

Focusing on the mantra also appears to have a definite power in calming breath.
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« Reply #42 on: Nov 09, 2016 11:09 pm »

Yesterday I went from 5-6 BPM to 2.5 BPM (average across the last 5 minutes of the technique).

I find that, from 3 BPM and below, the feeling of peace starts to creep in. The feeling of peace governs when BPM is around 2.

Focusing on the mantra also appears to have a definite power in calming breath.

I am unable to reconcile thinking of breath counts with bliss. What happens for me is that a feeling of bliss arises as a result of no thought....just awareness. As soon as thought re-enters awareness is disrupted.
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« Reply #43 on: Nov 10, 2016 02:32 am »

ditto
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« Reply #44 on: Nov 10, 2016 08:07 am »

ditto

Gooble gooble got. Tell me something that your snot.
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